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  #11  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:59 PM
PJS PJS is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

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What about Nikki Jedlicka specifically?

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He said that he has tilt issues. Someone posted a link earlier and he said that even when he was winning, he would still tilt through boredom.

As for the other pros...it's all very good being "one of the best in the world", but when you're constantly in games with the few players who are better... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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  #12  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:06 PM
andy099 andy099 is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

full tilt- oh look this kai buxxe has played high stakes for a couple of weeks, lets sign him up.

It's hardly like he's had good results for a couple of years i.e aba, PA, Durrr

I guess a lot of poker players lose sight of the real value of money and just piss it away thinking they can win it back
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  #13  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:07 PM
TheJackale TheJackale is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

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how about; poker is nearly impossible to beat long term? its gambling, brosephs. stu unger was a savant, he could beat the game. phil ivey, chip reese, etc, im awed by their ability and their stamina and their discipline but i guarantee you that they go broke just as fast as anyone else if the rivers dont go there way enough times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?
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  #14  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:11 PM
warrantofice warrantofice is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

I should really write this as some sort of a seperate post cause its so genius but i guess i'll write it here first as my trial run sort of deal.

The short of it is that poker is a game of investing money or gambling depending on how you play. But if we assume that we are playing under the pretense to invest our money intellegently than the same principles of investing in the stock market apply, however the stock market trades at a much larger level. The reason the tops pro's are broke is because they have reached the poker ceiling, its similar to the investment ceiling which goes by some name that i don't know. if you talk to really good investment bankers, the top ones, they will tell that they can basically make the same average returns year after year with work but not to to much...however, when their portfolio reaches around 500 million dollars then it becomes much more difficult to keep there high return rate. So i would propose that this is what has occured to the current breed of poker players. Because the poker economy is much small than the us stock market the ceiling is much lower.
So i would conclude that investing your money with poker it a good choice but only until say your reach 3 or so million to give an arbitary number. After that point it becomes much better to invest your money in a the stock market.

that'll be 2 cents
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  #15  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:40 PM
markksman markksman is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

Warrant that is a good insight. In my business, I can get returns from 400% to .0001% on my money. The problem is finding more opportunities towards the 400% end of the scale. At times I find myself just sitting on money because the work required to get the 20% return is just not worth it. Seems stupid but it is true.

There is a sweetspot for ROI for each player, but I think real poker players probably can't live with that so they tend to push themselves to higher levels and higher stakes. Some swim, some sink. Some sink, sink, sink and eventually swim. My guess is very few players manage to play at their optimum level for extended periods of times. Mostly because they might be a grind, and less challenging than taking on other games, moving up, taking a shot and the rest.

So while Bankroll management is a significant part of poker, I would say on average poker players are horrible at managing money. Mostly because nobody stays at their maximum ROI/versus time invested/versus income level desired. I suspect some of the characteristics that make people good poker players are the reasons why they can't really manage their money well.

Money management goes beyond having enough backing to play at your odds, or sitting down with a big enough buy-ins. You have to limit spending money on things that are notoriously bad investments. Some of the prop betting, playing games you are unfamiliar with, playing other forms of gambling, backing other players. All these things likely suck money out. Add to that to the average every day money holes people face outside of poker... and it can be a mess.

What are the odds someone finds a sweetspot that lets them work/play 20 hours a week, make 150k a year and they stay there. Same level, same games, nothing new, nothing challenging, just the same old thing. Most poker players would never do that. There are exceptions to every rule, but I would say the typical profile of a poker player from the top pros to the brand new wannabe is pretty similar in terms of basic characteristics.
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  #16  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:40 PM
prohornblower prohornblower is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

Coke is a helluva drug.
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2007, 09:03 PM
felixleong felixleong is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

I think the following could be one of the reason.

lets say u are the 9th best player in the world, do u think u wouldnt go busto if u play against the other 8 best everyday?

i think the money making players are those that play stakes that are high enough but not the highest and make good $$

Top players that keep playing against other Top players do not really a lot edge as compared to finding weaker players.

The top players are just taking turns winning each other's $$, so the money is basically passing around one another.
And because of their expensive life style u know wat happens next... they take turns getting busto...
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2007, 09:05 PM
HOWMANY HOWMANY is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

they arent actually good at poker plus they have a ridiculous amount of life leaks
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2007, 09:09 PM
cassette cassette is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

-overconfidence
-tilt
-drunk/high
-failed shot taking
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2007, 09:17 PM
Wilpro Wilpro is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

The ones who are busto are not 'top' players, just the poker media saying they are better they really are.
The real top pros are sick rich, like ivey, brunson, hellmuth. They all have something else in common, investing their poker winnings in stuff that is a lot lower variance than playing poker!
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