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  #1  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:20 AM
Bond18 Bond18 is offline
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Default Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

I've been trying to concentrate and get reads more when i play instead of doing auto pilot until late game. As a result i'm trying to pick a few more spots to deviate my play based on read. Hopefully these don't look too spewy.

First hand is in stars 50/50. Because of my stack i've been playing pretty straight forward. Villain seems kind of tight pre flop and TAGish post. I felt like his tight pre flop tendencies were the key in this hand.

My stack: ~19k
His stack: ~19k

Blinds 600/1200, I hold A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB.

Preflop: Folds to SB, SB completes, hero raises to 3600 (i think an argument can be made for shoving as well), SB calls.

From way SB was playing i actually expected him to have a pretty limited range here, he seemed to be raising most decent/mid A's here, and he seemed smart enough not to limp call a lot of SC's in this spot, but by all means still possible, it's only 50/50 afterall.

Flop: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets 3600, hero calls (this seems like most questionable street.)

Villains tiny bet didn't really ring true for me, and i felt like most 8's/7's weren't in his range. I feel like he's raising A8/A7 (or shoving) pre, but he could have like 9T/98/JT i guess. Still, i felt like he was drawing a lot or just taking a shot with overs.

River: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets 7200, hero calls.

So when the 9 hits i feel like the most probable card for him to have paired with just got less likely, and because of how weak my line looks he should bluff a fair bit.


The next hand is from UB 120 Bounty a few nights ago. BB seemed quite aggressive.

Hero holds A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the SB.

My stack: ~5000
Villains stack: ~5000

Blinds 150/300 with 25 ante.

Preflop: Folds to hero, hero raises to 900, BB calls.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets 1200, BB shoves, hero calls.

I knew this villain was always shoving AJ pre, almost always KJ, and sometimes QJ. He might flat QJ/JT/J9, and he's shoving any pair pre. I figured he shows up with a draw almost as often as he shows up with a J, possibly more, that or just making a play on a hard board for me to connect on.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:53 AM
MaverickUSC MaverickUSC is offline
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Default Re: Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

Your reasoning is excellent, and due to it I like both.

Devo
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:59 AM
Pudge714 Pudge714 is offline
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Default Re: Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

I dislike the first one I think his limp call of a small raise like hits a lot of small and middle connected cards.

The second one crai is a much better way to stack off than bet/call imo.
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  #4  
Old 11-21-2007, 01:53 AM
Bond18 Bond18 is offline
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Default Re: Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

[ QUOTE ]
I dislike the first one I think his limp call of a small raise like hits a lot of small and middle connected cards.

The second one crai is a much better way to stack off than bet/call imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pudge, i think your CRAI on hand 2 is good.

Vs his draws we get it in all the same. Vs his J's we get it in all the same. Vs his hands that are snap folding to our C bet we get an extra bet when he bet/folds. Good call dude.
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  #5  
Old 11-21-2007, 01:29 PM
Requin Requin is offline
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Default Re: Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

The difference is on hand two, if you CR he might bet/call any pair between 4 and J and you are shoving blind. Since you lead out and he shoved I'd guess you can eliminate those pairs, polarize his range and thus call with A hi. Not that CR AI is necessarily -ev but I would guess that bet/call is better, if he's very aggro.
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2007, 01:57 PM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default Re: Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

#2 is fine, and I think bet/call is a better line than CRAI because I think he's only betting after you fail to c-bet if he has you beat, whereas leading can get a shove from a wide variety of hands, including air and draws.

#1, although it pains me greatly to do it, I agree with Pudge -- the flop is in the neighborhood of check/call hands, so I'd fold on the turn. As played, I'd fold on the river as well unless Villain was super, super aggro.

Edit: #1 should be "complete/call" rather than "check/call", whatever.
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  #7  
Old 11-21-2007, 01:57 PM
Rupert Rupert is offline
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Default Re: Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

I don't really like hand 1 because I can't think of many hands we are beating at all. If you think he's shoving A8/A7 pre then I presume you think he's shoving KT/KJ/KQ pre... and even more bluffs beat us - any PP, random T8s and stuff... I think I give up on the turn just because that flop hits his range so hard
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  #8  
Old 11-21-2007, 04:19 PM
shaundeeb shaundeeb is offline
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Default Re: Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

I shove the flop on hand 1 you have plenty of equty when called. I also make it 4x PF so shoving flop is easier when 3xing with the 16bbs postflop sucks cuz stacks always goofy.
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  #9  
Old 11-21-2007, 06:00 PM
Pudge714 Pudge714 is offline
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Default Re: Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

[ QUOTE ]
I shove the flop on hand 1 you have plenty of equty when called. I also make it 4x PF so shoving flop is easier when 3xing with the 16bbs postflop sucks cuz stacks always goofy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ya I agree with this.
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  #10  
Old 11-21-2007, 07:08 PM
PhatPots PhatPots is offline
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Default Re: Two kind of silly (possibly bad) A high call downs

I hate hand 1. I think you should continuation bet the flop for 3,600 and hope to take it down and check the turn and take a free card to hit ur gutshot. Do we really expect villain to have called preflop with air? Even if he has a small pp he has you beat. That board hits so many suited connectors. I think you have to be praying he has something like KT. Don't like it


Hand 2 is very read dependent. I remember hands where I have played where I make a hero call with A high with all big cards because I thought villain was on a bluff. Well he was..... but with a small PP. I think no one can give advice on this hand, because we would need to see how this villain has played and to see how often you have been blind stealing.
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