8/16 live AA multiway facing heavy flop action

[Bob T.]

I donk this, and call one bet back to me, and probably call one bet on the river.

I do think I want to get a seat somewhere to the left of MP if one becomes available.

[nepenthe]

[ QUOTE ]
I donk this, and call one bet back to me, and probably call one bet on the river.

I do think I want to get a seat somewhere to the left of MP if one becomes available.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I bet the turn, does it matter where the raise comes from? (I mean, the pot's big so you should probably make the call regardless, but would you be less/more convinced you're losing depending on who raises?)

[Bob T.]

On the turn, I probably have between 2 and 8 outs if I am behind. There is some possibility, still that I am ahead, but it is getting smaller.

Raise from the button, is of course scarier, given your description of the opponents.

On the river, after a raise, I am check/calling, and I won't be surprised if I lose, but I think I have won this hand often enough to make calling right here.

[BriPlay]

based on your reads im really worried about button here.
i am assuming he does not smooth call QQ JJ KK PF here.
I also assume you are not playing LAG and have some respect.
If these are the case then your read (he plays his cards)to me says he is betting a made set. regardless hes going all the way.
I'd bet out on flop to see what MP does(and UTG), assume button is raising, and expect it to be two or 3 to me. If UTG folds i might pop it to see if MP will fold, then chk call turn river (on chance button has KK QQ JJ ,A7c, etc). Basically im trying to give bad odds to a drawing player if i can get them to fold, and otherwise keeping the pot under control

a yucky situation, but cant see a fold here cause the pot in enormous and your reads give you SOME hope

thanks for the post

[nepenthe]

[ QUOTE ]
Some reads first:

MP has a spaztastic tendency to bluff, and is also particularly aggressive on the flop. I've seen her bet a flop like 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] after limping with it in LMP against 4 other opponents, and bluff a blank turn and river against a caller who showed a T. Basically, she bluffs a lot in seemingly hopeless situations. She is also very aggressive with TPNK type of hands esp. on the flop, but will slow down on later streets if raised.

Button isn't quite as bluffy as MP here, but is still quite lag pre and postflop, and I've noticed that he doesn't know or care to read hands and only plays his own. It's the kind of guy who says, "I have 2 pair, I raise!" even when an obvious flush and straight draw came in on the river and a passive tight straightforward guy donks into a multiway field. Very aggressive with draws as well.

No particular reads on UTG and BB, except they're loose, fairly passive, and overall good for the game.

I'm in EMP with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG limps, I raise, MP coldcalls, Button calls, BB comes along.

Flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG donks, I go ahead and raise, MP 3-bets, Button cold-caps, BB folds, UTG calls, I call two, MP calls.

At this point I'm concerned most with Button's coldcap. Although he's aggressive and plays only his own hands, he's not crazy enough to do this with middle pair. His range is 2 pair, set, TP, and maybe flush/straight/pair or combo thereof. UTG's call of the cap is slightly worrisome. I'm concerned least by MP's 3-bet, because she could easily do this with something like TP, middle pair or worse. I don't put her on TPTK because I've seen her raise and cap A9o preflop.

Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG checks. My play and plan for the rest of the hand? Bet-call (up to how many bets) or check (with the intention of calling/folding/raising - depending on what type of action?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I debated for a while between betting and checking and checked. I was worried about Button first and UTG second.

What happened is that MP (flop 3-bettor) instabet after me. Button just called (!!). UTG just called too. At this point I decided to checkraise the field.

My rationale is that for reasons stated in the OP, I'm not really concerned with MP's strength, and now button has signified he's holding a draw. Still not sure about UTG's holdings, but the fact that he didn't checkraise the turn tells me I'm likely ahead.

I still doubt whether my initial turn check was the right play, but also thought at the time that the checkraise was clearly correct given this action. Yes?

[Hyperrrprank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some reads first:

MP has a spaztastic tendency to bluff, and is also particularly aggressive on the flop. I've seen her bet a flop like 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] after limping with it in LMP against 4 other opponents, and bluff a blank turn and river against a caller who showed a T. Basically, she bluffs a lot in seemingly hopeless situations. She is also very aggressive with TPNK type of hands esp. on the flop, but will slow down on later streets if raised.

Button isn't quite as bluffy as MP here, but is still quite lag pre and postflop, and I've noticed that he doesn't know or care to read hands and only plays his own. It's the kind of guy who says, "I have 2 pair, I raise!" even when an obvious flush and straight draw came in on the river and a passive tight straightforward guy donks into a multiway field. Very aggressive with draws as well.

No particular reads on UTG and BB, except they're loose, fairly passive, and overall good for the game.

I'm in EMP with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG limps, I raise, MP coldcalls, Button calls, BB comes along.

Flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG donks, I go ahead and raise, MP 3-bets, Button cold-caps, BB folds, UTG calls, I call two, MP calls.

At this point I'm concerned most with Button's coldcap. Although he's aggressive and plays only his own hands, he's not crazy enough to do this with middle pair. His range is 2 pair, set, TP, and maybe flush/straight/pair or combo thereof. UTG's call of the cap is slightly worrisome. I'm concerned least by MP's 3-bet, because she could easily do this with something like TP, middle pair or worse. I don't put her on TPTK because I've seen her raise and cap A9o preflop.

Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG checks. My play and plan for the rest of the hand? Bet-call (up to how many bets) or check (with the intention of calling/folding/raising - depending on what type of action?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I debated for a while between betting and checking and checked. I was worried about Button first and UTG second.

What happened is that MP (flop 3-bettor) instabet after me. Button just called (!!). UTG just called too. At this point I decided to checkraise the field.

My rationale is that for reasons stated in the OP, I'm not really concerned with MP's strength, and now button has signified he's holding a draw. Still not sure about UTG's holdings, but the fact that he didn't checkraise the turn tells me I'm likely ahead.

I still doubt whether my initial turn check was the right play, but also thought at the time that the checkraise was clearly correct given this action. Yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. I agree that the bet/call line is probably best. Once you've checked and the action goes as stated, I can see putting in a raise here. Best guess is you are either ahead or drawing pretty strong against 2-pair. UTG and the button seem likely to be drawing at this point, and this may be your only chance to draw extra money out of them.
On the other hand, you probably can't fold to a 3-bet from MP, so you'll be paying an extra 2BB to showdown your hand if the river doesn't change things.

plan for the river is key to the decision. I assume if you're c/r'ing the turn you'll donk a safe card on the river and call 1 back to you.

[KitCloudkicker]

bet the turn.

if you get raised, call, and then you have a decision to make on the river.