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View Poll Results: KQo
raise 38 71.70%
fold 11 20.75%
call 4 7.55%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1221  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:00 PM
billmagnet billmagnet is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 78
Default Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]

If FT is in fact unwilling to re-open the investigation, or at the very least to provide a FAR greater explanation for their rationale in clearing those accounts, then this will be an unmitigated public relations and customer service DISASTER for them.

[/ QUOTE ]


No it won't. You greatly overestimate 2+2's presence in the online poker market.
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  #1222  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:00 PM
KotOD KotOD is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Born to lose, destined to fail
Posts: 1,656
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
neither. its all memorized. However, we did first construct it on paper.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.


575/2497 = 0.230276332
216/961 = 0.224765869
538/2403 = 0.223886808
411/1836 = 0.223856209
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  #1223  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:02 PM
Lunkan Lunkan is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 99
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus this thread is tl;dr.

One point I'd like to make RE: Nations endorsement of his friend(s):

It is my perception that Nations status on 2p2 is very important to him. He has a fair amount of respect/pull on these forums from his posting history and whatnot. He used that pull in this thread.

Why would he risk tarnishing his reputation if he knew his friends were botting? He has NOTHING to gain, since he does not share in their $$ whatsoever.

It is possible he has not heard the full story from Chuck. I am yet undecided as to whether he has heard all the facts from chuck or not.

[/ QUOTE ]
If a friend told you he had been caught cheating and risked loosing thousands of dollar, isn't it possible you would lie to protect him? Your friend might even offer you some of his money. Wile Nation might very well be telling the truth, he can't be trusted.
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  #1224  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:05 PM
billmagnet billmagnet is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 78
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that they're able to fly under the radar says it's a human clicking the button.

[/ QUOTE ]


That doesn't make any sense at all. There are a plethora of ways to simulate a random human click. It'd be one of the easiest parts of making the bot.
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  #1225  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:07 PM
KurtSF KurtSF is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,983
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that they're able to fly under the radar says it's a human clicking the button.

[/ QUOTE ]


That doesn't make any sense at all. There are a plethora of ways to simulate a random human click. It'd be one of the easiest parts of making the bot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like, say, I don't know, by a script like those nlnut has asked for and posted on these very forums.
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  #1226  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:07 PM
alphamale1 alphamale1 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 117
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone not care if there are bots playing?

I play the game sucessfully on-line with my bare hands.

I find it funny that the OP is using a robot(pokertracker software) to mine and organize huge volumes of data but he and others are in panic mode about a what they perceive to be a more automated bot that another player is using.
I have tried the 30 day free trial of pokertracker, so i know what it does. I do not use it.

So if a site allows pokertracker, in my opinion, it should allow pokerbots.

With regards to poker tracking software, how would you feel if a site, like fulltilt, fully incorporated poker tracker into their software?

[/ QUOTE ]

FT would never put PT in its software... Why enforce that your a losing player by showing it to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right i agree. I know fulltilt would not incorporate pokertracker into the software. My question was hypothetical. Is OP and others concerned about a potential bot advantage or the end of the game? I am sure most pokertracker users would HATE it if all poker sites incorporated it into their software. They dont want to lose an advantage.

And likewise, i think some are concerned about bots lowering their advantage the pokertracker gives them.
Edges don't last forever. New ones have to be found. Accept the bots, beat them, build a better one, or find something else to do if the game dies.

If you know how to program a good bot, don't you think you would also know how to create an undetectable bot?

I would be more concerned about collusion, than bots, though I am not worried about collusion either. If I am not winning, I will not play.
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  #1227  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:07 PM
dahlig763 dahlig763 is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

I think it'd actually be dumber for FTP to respond in anyway. Why put something official down so that it can be pasted all over forums on the net? They did what they felt they were obligated to do. By not responding they are actually minimizing the potential harm this could have.

Unless concrete evidence is brought down, FTP has no reason to respond. Sure they could assure a small community, but they can't really do that without pissing one group off, or admitting lazyness and pissing everyone off.
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  #1228  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:11 PM
nlnut nlnut is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 140
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

1. It won't prove anything, but it would reassure me (and probably others) greatly seeing a photo of the room the borg play in. Not proof, but seeing a livingroom with 8 monitors and 4 guys sitting around will ease concerns that this is just 16 CPUs in your closet. The sooner the better.....I never took a pix while we were playing...all I can do is take a pix now, but that will do no justice since we decided not to play for a few days.

2. Why did your team not play together yesterday when its existence was made public?........ My friends played while I read the thread. Mariojr and boxer both did play yesterday. They got railed hard so they quit.


When did you find out about this thread on 2+2? Who found it first.....I found it in the morning

I doubt it was Brandon who never even knew about 2+2 before yesterday, more likely nlnut or more likely still nation. Every other day you all play at the same time, concurrently, but yesterday you took turns and played sequentially. This reeks of trying to cover your tracks once you were outed. Why, for the last 3 months, do you play together every damn day and then separately on the day you're exposed?.....I expalined that above

3. How in God's name are those river numbers so similar? I know you don't want to share your playbook, but pardon my annoyance seeing as that is all we do here: share our strategies! It's 1BB/100... you didn't discover the holy grail of poker. You won't be revealing anything new here. Even if you don't divulge the exact algorithms which created those stats, at least share the CRITERIA on which the decision was made. What did you look at when you wrote the wrote the "book" on the river?....again not gonna share our strategy....or any criteria

4. If you won't share the contents on the "book", please share its form. It it written in a notebook that everyone was made to memorize? Is it on giant posters on the walls where everyone can see it while they are playing? Is it in another computer or window that can be viewed while playing? Pics?......... We created it on paper...then practiced & memorized it (took about a week) ...then fine tuned it as needed.

FOR TERBEK: Do you play in the evenings? nlnut has shared that he takes a dinner break at around 5 or 6 pm Eastern time. If you frequently (or semi-frequently) sign in around these times that would account for the appearance of the borg avoiding you.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #1229  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:12 PM
PokerFink PokerFink is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Keyra is back
Posts: 7,209
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

Hey everyone,

Like Nation, I am here on goodwill to back up a friend. I know Chuck personally, and although I am not a close friend of his like Nation, he is a friend and a good guy.

(For those that don't know, Nation is one of my best friends; we've known each other much longer than either of us have posted on 2+2.)

I found out about the system some time ago from Nation. He gave me a brief explanation of it and how Chuck and his friends operated it and told me they were doing very well. The things Nation and Chuck are saying in this thread are true and in-line with what I already knew about them. These guys are not using bots.

I think it's laughable that posters with little or no experience in statistics are posting statistics and saying "LOOK! PROOF! BOTS!" when the statistics prove nothing. Full Tilt is a multi-million dollar business. All these statistics (and probably many more) are easily available to them. They probably have professional statisticians on staff. If they ran a month-long investigation and decided that Chuck and his friends are not bots, well then maybe you should believe them and not some random 2+2 poster? I am amazed how little credence is being given to the investigation run by FTP.

I will be happy to answer any questions directed my way that I feel comfortable answering, but please realize that I’m not as familiar with the system as Nation. I can't offer any detailed explanation of their methods.

-fink
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  #1230  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:13 PM
BrandonJoseph47 BrandonJoseph47 is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 57
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that you are now reduced to FLAT OUT LYING in this post. Proves you have, at best, a shaky leg to stand on! Spreading this filth and passing it off as fact is SLANDERING!!! I'm sure you'll rustle up a few more mob members with these lies, but your tactics are NOTHING SHORT of underhanded! Deforming one's character isn't a good way to build clout amongst, what I thought(or been told), was a very intelligant community. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, you do realize you have been lying from the start right? In fact I am convinced your so-called attempts to defend a friend (and yourself at the same time) has hurt all of you way more than if you would have held that stupid mouth of yours shut.

Seriously, you are scum, regardless if this chuck guy have been using bots or not. You should have shut up so long ago, and I am STUNNED that nation and this chuck-guy decided to actually agree upon telling the forum that you were in fact one of the players, when it could instead just have been dismissed as a troll. That, if anything, was a retarded move. You have DEFINITELY done more damage than good to their cause, that is pretty clear.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm scum? Take a look at yourself, you flatlever. You're assuming that I care what a glad-handing, secret society, group of pawns/sheep/drones, really thinks. I couldn't care less. I'm also sure of the fact that you, and the rest of your crew,(i.e. Bluffthis,etc..) will all choke on crow by the time this is all over. In the meantime, have fun with your witch hunt. You've certainly got support from 90% of these caulk jockeys.(To the other 10% thanks!) Get a life.
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