BDFD + BDSD How many outs? (T9s)

[TJO]

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.15/$0.3
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 3 folds, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (10.47SB, 5 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls...

n00b question for you: How many outs do I have?
I think I'm definitely correct to call here.

[BigBadBabar]

n00b question for you--how many outs do you reckon we have?

[Point Blank]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'm definitely correct to call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh ...

where in the hell am i [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[TJO]

I got this far:

On the turn best cards I can hope for are 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two cards).
With them I have 15 outs from turn to river

With any other [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 cards) 9 outs from turn to river.

With non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 or J (6 cards) 8 outs from turn to river.

With non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q or 6 (6 cards) 4 outs from turn to river.

My math is little rusty so I was hoping you could help.

[Zeldark]

0 Gap BDSD: 1.5 Outs
BDFD: 1.5 outs
Total: 3 outs
Statement that "I'm definately correct to call here": Priceless.

Sorry I couldn't resist. Seriously though, if you want add those up for 3 outs we'll be needing 14ish:1 odds, which we aren't getting.

[Point Blank]

[ QUOTE ]
I got this far:

On the turn best cards I can hope for are 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two cards).
With them I have 15 outs from turn to river

With any other [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 cards) 9 outs from turn to river.

With non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 or J (6 cards) 8 outs from turn to river.

With non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q or 6 (6 cards) 4 outs from turn to river.

My math is little rusty so I was hoping you could help.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are so many things wrong with what you are thinking - it's too hard to begin ...

how about you start with "from FLOP to turn to river" ... how about you include action after you act ...

my head hurts

[Gib]

I'd give you about 2.5 outs here.

1.5 for your BDFD &amp; about 1 for your BDSD, normally prolly aobut 1.5 but I've taken 0.5 off to discount for the [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] cards I've all ready counted in ur BDFD. Still the 1 out for ur BDSD is still prolly a little generous.

[TJO]

[ QUOTE ]
0 Gap BDSD: 1.5 Outs
BDFD: 1.5 outs
Total: 3 outs
Statement that "I'm definately correct to call here": Priceless.

Sorry I couldn't resist. Seriously though, if you want add those up for 3 outs we'll be needing 14ish:1 odds, which we aren't getting.

[/ QUOTE ]Always glad to amuse you with my n00bness [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. What about the implied odds?

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

easy 3bet preflop

as played fold flop

[Zeldark]

Since both of your draws are backdoor, you can't complete your draw until the river. Thus, there is little to no value betting on the turn. Our expressed odds are poor enough that it is likely for our implied odds to also not be profitable. Some turn cards may give you a strong draw (J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) most will blow your hand out of the water. Some will be in between.