More Pat Tillman

[donkeylove]

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He believed in the effort, and if the family didn't realize perception and propaganda are part of war, then they are naive

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WRONG
He supported the war in afghanistan but was AGAINST the war in Iraq. One of his favorite authors was Noam Chomsky.

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He died in Afghanistan right? So he believed in the effort in which he was killed. Perception and propaganda are alive on that front too.

[Huh?]

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I understand his family's grief, but the whole story is being co-opted by the antiwar movement to say the war wasn't neccessary. What's the difference how he died? He believed in the effort, and if the family didn't realize perception and propaganda are part of war, then they are naive. Tillman was definitely marketed, but you either believe in the effort, and win at all costs, including controlling the media or you don't. Tillman believed in the war and I don't think he would care about how the Army reported it. Better to let your family think you died a hero. I am against the war, but his family making a big deal of this seems sily to me. The Army lied to try to bolster the war effort. No suprise. Been going on for hundreds of years. They just didn't have a hundred newsmen to dig it up in the past.

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uh except the countless times Tillman personally demanded/requested that the media leave him alone and stop asking for press interviews etc, and that the Army not try to market his joining/attempting to join the Rangers as some type of recruiting campain or poster child for the new american hero.

[slickss]

I respect Jessica Lynch and the family of Pat Tillman for going forward with this, criticizing it. I'm sure that a lot of people would just be happy that the death/capture of a loved one / yourself is portrayed as extremely heroic - and thus not say anything.

[canis582]

So should we let the government and army lie to and mislead us? When did this become so acceptable?

Donkey love: how long should we allow the government to 'control the media'? I believe you are a fascist and you are what is wrong with My Country.

[AJackson]

Like others have said, it was the lie that is upsetting. Also, from what his brother has said and all I've observed, this type of dishonest propaganda goes directly against everything he stood for. It's like spitting on his grave.

[Hoi Polloi]

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Better to let your family think you died a hero.

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It is not for you or the Army to say what is best for anyone's family. That is b*llsh*t of the highest order.

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The Army lied to try to bolster the war effort. No suprise. Been going on for hundreds of years.

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Just because it has gone on, and I think this level of event creation (especially the Lynch story) is unprecented, does not mean it should be condoned. Democracies don't function when the routine manipulation of the electorate becomes accepted and expected.

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They just didn't have a hundred newsmen to dig it up in the past.

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One of the great shames of these episodes is how the American media enthusiastically went along with the propaganda. The story has come out for 3 reasons: 1) UK press was not drinking the Kool-Aid; 2) Tillman/Lynch have worked hard to set the record straight; and 3) voters turned the Congress over to the Dems and now Congress is once again doing its job and providing the people oversight of the executive and military. Don't make the mistake of thinking our media are functioning watchdogs of our freedoms and our democracy. They have become the lapdogs of the powerful.

[MasterLJ]

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Pat Tillman was the most famous person to join the Army since Elvis was drafted. The story was great man turns down millions to serve his country. The end of the story is of course tragic, but it happens more often than you think.

I know many families who have been given "alternate endings" for their loved ones for one reason or another. Especially in cases where friendly fire is known/suspected the Army or USMC will in most cases outright lie to the family. Pat Tillmans case was only uncovered because of who he was before he joined the army.

The Army inparticular loves its good PR. They've always been fast to promote stories of patriotism and bravery(i.e. J. Lynch, Pat Tillman), but quick to try to sweep the bad under the rug(i.e. Abu Grav, Walter Reed).

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My cousin was killed in Iraq and this couldn't be further from the truth (at least in our case). He was an officer in the Marines and they never ruled out the possibility of friendly fire (although they say it would have come from neighboring Iraqi solider [on our side]).

They also gave us a full briefing from their Regiment Colonel (hope I got that right).

They also made one of his men talk to us who said he was too tired to carry his radio pack (read: 6ft antenna) so my cousin took it for him and was possibly made a bigger target because of it.

My cousin was extremely similar to Tillman, he gave up some Big 10 scholarships to go to Annapolis because he wanted to be a Marine. 1300 people showed up to his funeral as testament to how well we was liked.

Point being, this may be an isolated case or perhaps an Army thing, as the Marines could not have done more for our family.

[Huh?]

I think it is a Pat Tillman thing.

The guy was offered an out but decided he wanted to serve out his commitment-which obv looks great and is a HUGe PR story for the war. Then he gets killed and its by his own guys in a case of stupidity.

Looks really really bad and they dug a hole then kept digging.

[casey_brick]

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Pat Tillman was the most famous person to join the Army since Elvis was drafted. The story was great man turns down millions to serve his country. The end of the story is of course tragic, but it happens more often than you think.

I know many families who have been given "alternate endings" for their loved ones for one reason or another. Especially in cases where friendly fire is known/suspected the Army or USMC will in most cases outright lie to the family. Pat Tillmans case was only uncovered because of who he was before he joined the army.

The Army inparticular loves its good PR. They've always been fast to promote stories of patriotism and bravery(i.e. J. Lynch, Pat Tillman), but quick to try to sweep the bad under the rug(i.e. Abu Grav, Walter Reed).

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My cousin was killed in Iraq and this couldn't be further from the truth (at least in our case). He was an officer in the Marines and they never ruled out the possibility of friendly fire (although they say it would have come from neighboring Iraqi solider [on our side]).

They also gave us a full briefing from their Regiment Colonel (hope I got that right).

They also made one of his men talk to us who said he was too tired to carry his radio pack (read: 6ft antenna) so my cousin took it for him and was possibly made a bigger target because of it.

My cousin was extremely similar to Tillman, he gave up some Big 10 scholarships to go to Annapolis because he wanted to be a Marine. 1300 people showed up to his funeral as testament to how well we was liked.

Point being, this may be an isolated case or perhaps an Army thing, as the Marines could not have done more for our family.

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I'm happy to hear your family was dealt with open and honestly.

Not to get longwinded but I had to my friends father and mother how he really died.

BTW this has been a problem in every war ever fought.

[MasterLJ]

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I think it is a Pat Tillman thing.

The guy was offered an out but decided he wanted to serve out his commitment-which obv looks great and is a HUGe PR story for the war. Then he gets killed and its by his own guys in a case of stupidity.

Looks really really bad and they dug a hole then kept digging.

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It is my feeling that this is the case.