QT in the CO (self-defence)

[drzen]

A self-defence hand. I haven't seen many hands but the table on the whole is loose and Villain has played most of the hands so far.

PokerRoom 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 (Villain) calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) checks.


Okay. So I call preflop because I have reasonable position and can get in cheap.

Flop: (4 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villain bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, UTG folds, Villain calls.

I have top pair and two BD draws so I'm going to be continuing with this hand, although I'm wary. When Villain bets, I seize the chance to knock out the other players if I can. Villain could have anything. I'd be thinking FD, top pair and a pocket pair are all possibilities.

Turn: (4 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Villain checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Villain calls.

Okay, I'm liking the turn, so I keep the betting lead. I have TP and an OESD, and no reason to think I'm behind. I'm a bit concerned that Villain bet out on the flop, because that tends to mean FD or TP, so reverse domination is a small worry.

River: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Villain checks, Hero checks.


Woah! That's the flush card. Villain has called everything and I haven't been able to narrow down his hand. I think that this is one of those spots where a bet can't win. If Villain has queen-small or a smaller pair, he will surely fold to a bet. He can't think I don't beat it. If he has the flush or two pair, he'll raise or at least call.

Final Pot: 6 BB

[shadow.]

I have a problem with all of the following. Tell me why I have these problems. (fyp would be lame here tilt, et al.)

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Okay. So I call preflop because I have reasonable position and can get in cheap.

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River: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Villain checks, Hero checks.

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[ QUOTE ]
Woah! That's the flush card. Villain has called everything and I haven't been able to narrow down his hand. I think that this is one of those spots where a bet can't win. If Villain has queen-small or a smaller pair, he will surely fold to a bet. He can't think I don't beat it. If he has the flush or two pair, he'll raise or at least call.


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[hizo]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a problem with all of the following. Tell me why I have these problems. (fyp would be lame here tilt, et al.)

[ QUOTE ]

Okay. So I call preflop because I have reasonable position and can get in cheap.

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I can't figure out why this is wrong... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Are we to raise here against two LPs to fold the blinds and buy the button??

[ThunderEagle]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't figure out why this is wrong... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Are we to raise here against two LPs to fold the blinds and buy the button??

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I personally after reviewing some PT data, have determined that QTo is junk, and I throw it away anymore. But that is me, I'm sure some others can play it +EV, but I consider it trash.

[shadow.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a problem with all of the following. Tell me why I have these problems. (fyp would be lame here tilt, et al.)

[ QUOTE ]

Okay. So I call preflop because I have reasonable position and can get in cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]

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I can't figure out why this is wrong... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Are we to raise here against two LPs to fold the blinds and buy the button??

[/ QUOTE ]

The action is not necessarily incorrect, but rather the thinking.

To the poster who said that QTo is trash...well, I think that's wrong.

[VickreyAuction]

It's extremely unlikely that villain will fold a Q, 9 or PP on this river if he's already called the flop and turn with it. Value bet.

[Romulus141]

I'm sure you missed a value bet on the river. I believe SSHE mentions something about betting for value when a scare card hits. This is a perfect spot to value bet. Our villian is loose and passive (apparently), and so with all of the things he'll bet, I doubt a flush draw is one of them. He probably has a nine or a three or a queen with a small kicker, or just ace high. Who knows? All I know is that I expect to beat him quite often here.

And yeah, I also disagree with the assessment that QTo is trash. In EP, yes, I fold it, but in MP and LP, I limp.

[hizo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a problem with all of the following. Tell me why I have these problems. (fyp would be lame here tilt, et al.)

[ QUOTE ]

Okay. So I call preflop because I have reasonable position and can get in cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't figure out why this is wrong... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Are we to raise here against two LPs to fold the blinds and buy the button??

[/ QUOTE ]

The action is not necessarily incorrect, but rather the thinking.

To the poster who said that QTo is trash...well, I think that's wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I'll try to give my rationale why I play this:
1) you will have the button 80% of the time if you've seat-selected properly.
2) your hand has good value for making TP, straights, and once HU margina SD value.

is this right? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Absolution]

Why not iso-raise this if you're going to play then? 2 loose passives (I'll assume) limp in and you have a marginal hand that has a good chance of being best right now.

Calling is probably fairly neutral here I'd guess. You're 2nd point reminds a lot of the reasoning that people make when calling 2 or more cold in the blinds with hands like this and that's scarey.

[ThunderEagle]

[ QUOTE ]
To the poster who said that QTo is trash...well, I think that's wrong.

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That was me, and I said for me, and that other can play it +EV, one limper isn't enough for me. I've also been chasing bonus at some tighter sites.