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  #1  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:20 PM
fsoyars fsoyars is offline
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Default Tilt $300 6max: 88

Villain is solid regular Gettin Daize. He's been aggressive but shown down good hands. We've played plenty together he probably views me as solid/aggressive although I've been tight at this table thus far. This is the first time he's 3bet me.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t25/t50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t8015
UTG+1: t4900
Hero: t3302
Button: t1295
SB: t4805
BB: t3088

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t150</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to t475</font>, Hero calls t325 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t600)</font>.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t975, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets t700</font>, Hero?

I would love to hear thoughts on both preflop and flop. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:09 PM
Paul Thomson Paul Thomson is offline
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Default Re: Tilt $300 6max: 88

preflop is a fold unless you're making moves post flop which doesnt make sense since we're so short and u know villain gets out of line.

fold flop. the only hand u beat is AK.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:16 PM
Eagles Eagles is offline
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Default Re: Tilt $300 6max: 88

Pf is probably fine on the flop fold. A lot of his worse hands have good equity and if he 2barrell bluffs turn with any frequency at all you can't play it profitably.
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:22 PM
Paul Thomson Paul Thomson is offline
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Default Re: Tilt $300 6max: 88

[ QUOTE ]
Pf is probably fine on the flop fold. A lot of his worse hands have good equity and if he 2barrell bluffs turn with any frequency at all you can't play it profitably.

[/ QUOTE ]

how can preflop be fine?
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:52 PM
Weezey Baby Weezey Baby is offline
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Default Re: Tilt $300 6max: 88

are you folding 88 six-handed to an oop raise? I think pre-flop play is fine and the correct fold on the flop. Well played i beleive
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:11 PM
JSchnett JSchnett is offline
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Default Re: Tilt $300 6max: 88

[ QUOTE ]
are you folding 88 six-handed to an oop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
are you 100bbs deep in a tournament? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

fold pf as played flop is a super easy fold.
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:05 AM
fsoyars fsoyars is offline
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Default Re: Tilt $300 6max: 88

I guess I feel like in these 6max tourneys people 3bet very wide especially when protecting their bb not to mention I have position. But maybe I'm a bit short to be making this call...
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:45 AM
Bond18 Bond18 is offline
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Default Re: Tilt $300 6max: 88

I think your a bit short to set mine here. ~500 more in your stack and we can talk about it.
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:52 AM
d2themfi d2themfi is offline
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Default Re: Tilt $300 6max: 88

yeah i think its one of those spots where u dont have implied odds to setmine, and ur hand isnt strong enough to withstand pressure postflop on almost any board, so its proly a fold although it sucks having to fold 88 preflop shorthanded

flop is a fold
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2007, 03:12 AM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default Re: Tilt $300 6max: 88

I agree with everyone that, looking at just this hand, calling pre is no good because you don't have set odds, and position is useless because you're not deep enough to take advantage of it. You're going to be facing a flop with overs along with a c-bet most of the time, and have to fold.

In terms of optimal 6-handed strategy, if you're raise/folding with 88, that probably means that you're raise/folding such a significant % of you're opening range that it will be profitable to 3-bet you with ATC. To effectively counter a wide 3-betting range, you're going to have to significantly widen your 4-betting range. Against a typical aggro villain (which based on your description Villain in this hand may not be, since this is his first 3-bet of you), my instincts tell me that shoving pre here with 88 is going to be +cEV (and probably part of an equilibrium as well), but I'm too fried to do the math and work it out right now.

The potential problem here with shoving is that the stack sizes are awkward -- a natural 4-bet would be significantly less than a shove, but a natural 4-bet will put in more than 1/2 your stack. This gives the 3-bettors a huge advantage over the openers -- they risk only 15% of your stack against your entire stack.
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