Live Poker Adjustments/Considerations/Tendencies (Discuss please)

[Bonified]

One thing I was expecting to see in the list was calling off too much pre-flop with an implied odds hand, e.g. 10-15% of stack with a small pair. No big deal.

It would be great if someone could bump this thread round about the middle of May ! I'll forget, and it's v likely I'll be playing online constantly till then, before hitting the WSOP.

Edit: And regarding #9, one factor I'd like to point out is that it depends how many eggs there are on your table. If you're surrounded by them, you can maybe pass up a few small +EV shots because better ones will come. If there are only one or two, take your +EV shots before they donk their chips off to a better player.

[NoahSD]

I'm interested to see what people say in this thread since I don't have much live experience.

I'm not sure about this one though: "15. They may seem highly inconsistent, that is, you'll see some players play very tight/weak for a long time then suddenly do something very loose and spewy almost out of nowhere."

You see so many fewer hands live that you tend to build reads on people over a very small sample. Like when someone folds for a half hour straight, it just means they folded for a round and a half. So that can easily make you think players are playing inconsistently when in reality you're just witnessing normal variance over a smaller sample size than you realize.

Also contributing is the fact that live you're much more likely to notice hands. People show their cards more and talk about hands more and everyone at the table is always looking for something to be shocked about so they don't get bored. So online every once in a while some 15/12 will open 97s UTG, but he's much less likely to show his hand and you're much less likely to notice if he does.

[timex]

I don't think its easy to quantify #9, but I think its slightly similar to this:

In the first level of a poker tournaments, your PTBB/100 might be like 20, if you double early, it might be like 21, and if you lose out, it will be 0. So by doubling early, getting it in as a 50/50, you lose a lot of the value that you would have had by being at the table.

I think in this same example, if you have 20% of starting stack, you may still be able to earn like 10PTBB/100 since the mistakes people make are often ones you can exploit nearly as much with a 40BB stack as with a 200BB stack.

This is something that a couple people have mentioned to me, and although it sounds ridiculous, not losing all your chips has some value(ie. in the 85s hand, if you bet leaving yourself with 3k, even if your a 52/48 against his calling range and he calls the exact same range, the amount of value you have by being at a table of players whose limps you can constantly isolate, and who you can resteal very profitably, might be more than the extra equity gained by betting bigger, that said I think your a big enough favorite against their calling range that you should shove).

[Beachman42]

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... So online every once in a while some 15/12 will open 97s UTG, but he's much less likely to show his hand and you're much less likely to notice if he does.

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I actually started my poker journey as a live player long before the Moneymaker incident, so one comment I have is living without PAHUD/Pokertracker/pokerstove/pokerdb/etc. If you are serious about playing live, taper off the online advantages and scale back to only 1 MTT at a time. If you cannot get over your A.D.D. in the comfort of your own home, you may be in for a nasty surprise playing live.

I am well aware that this is very -eV for online play, but the WSOP isn't the FTOPS.

[Bonified]

[ QUOTE ]
In the first level of a poker tournaments, your PTBB/100 might be like 20, if you double early, it might be like 21, and if you lose out, it will be 0. So by doubling early, getting it in as a 50/50, you lose a lot of the value that you would have had by being at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't really applicable. If you have another game to go any play in (online or whatever), then you can make your 20 PTBB or whatever there. If you haven't, then doubling up might not increase your hourly at all, but you can apply it for more hours, right ?

[Mench]

Bond, really well said and thoughtout. I play a lot of live and I can't say strongly enough how true these things are. I often see live pros doing things that online are awful, but work live for the reasons you suggested. I have a lot more to say on this, will add to it later for sure.

[renodoc]

Bond,

Great post.

I agree very much with #7, ballistic on the bubble. That being said, I have seen some very strange things happen when trying to run people over at this point, and getting a read on when someone is willing to go to the mat during a hand is very key.

I'll also add the following problem about image and pot odds that seems to come up near every tourney I play. I will make a steal raise with ATC and then be forced to call a shortie's all in stand getting 3-1 or so. Knocking the player with AQ out with my 32o leaves a lasting impression on the rest of the table.

[Bond18]

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love the post agree with most except #9 which i strongly disagree with

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That's why number 9 is in question form and not a statement. Can you elaborate on why? I just can't come to a conclusion myself and i need you smart guys to tell me what to do (and none of that was sarcastic.)

[MrTimCaum]

awesome thread bond. mastr told me about it this afternoon at bellagio on the first break and I had to check it out. we briefly discussed #9 and in the last few months I've come to believe that there is validity to that point. I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, but I think the way Timex explained it is really solid.

[timex]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the first level of a poker tournaments, your PTBB/100 might be like 20, if you double early, it might be like 21, and if you lose out, it will be 0. So by doubling early, getting it in as a 50/50, you lose a lot of the value that you would have had by being at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't really applicable. If you have another game to go any play in (online or whatever), then you can make your 20 PTBB or whatever there. If you haven't, then doubling up might not increase your hourly at all, but you can apply it for more hours, right ?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is kind of irrelevant, since either;
1) Your hourly rate in a live tourney is much higher than playing online
2) You play the live the tourney because you want to maximize your equity in that live tourney