The dealer said I couldn't do it

[bav]

I saw exactly this happen at Caesars in LV about WSOP time. 2/5 game, the pot was growing large, it was heads up, and a fellow puts in $300. His opponent says "that's too much" and starts to fold. Guy says "wait--how much would you call" and when he hears "$100" the bettor retracts two stacks. Everybody looks at the dealer, dealer is looking a bit unsure, but there's a suit behind the table watching who has said nothing. So it continues. The great joy of this is the opponent hit his 2-outter on the river and stacked the "clever" fellow for like $800.

As the river betting is happening another suit walks up and looks annoyed. When the hand is over he yells at the table in general telling us, "This will NEVER happen again! Once a bet is out, it stays out. GOT IT?" Other suit looks a little sheepish. But they obviously let it stand--nothing you can reasonably do once the river is underway.

I was a-ok with their transaction. Nobody at the table objected--quite the opposite, we were all pretty amused by it. Seems like at this point it's between two consenting poker players. So I didn't understand SuperSuit's great annoyance at us. If he didn't like it, fine, just tell the other suit and the dealer they shouldn't have let that happen. No need to pop any corks.

Thinking about popping corks, the only time I can recall seeing a floor just TOTALLY go off the deep-end was when he looked up and saw a game of 12 players going on. There had been two tables of 6, but someone miscounted and they'd shouted up and asked if it was ok to combine 5+6 into an 11-person table. He'd agreed. Then they found themselves one chair short and just fixed it by letting someone squeeze in. But the floor's sputtering, screaming speech explained his perplexion: "WHAT THE HELL!!!!! SOMEBODY stand up RIGHT NOW! I don't care who, ONE of you has to get up this instant! I'm NOT KIDDING! GET UP or I'm breaking the whole table in 5 seconds! Do you have ANY idea what would happen to me if Gaming walked in here now? We're licensed for 5 tables of 11! I'll be instantly out of a job if anybody sees this. NOW SOMEBODY GET UP!" Poor guy was turning purple.

[UbinTook]

[ QUOTE ]
This time, I decide to try the other strategy. I remove my chip from my cards and make a show of being about to fold, and tell Senor Gold the most I can call is $10. He immediately pulls back $15 of his bet, and I call.

The table erupts. "Can he do that?" "He can't do that!". They all look to the dealer, who says, "I don't think you can do that". I tell the dealer confidently "We are headsup, we can do what we want, and (waving at the table) it's none of their business". Jesus Gold tells the dealer just to finish dealing the hand, the dealer shrugs and produces a non king completing a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If i was dealing, the bets stays.
If the floor was called it stays.
It is irrelevant that you are heads up, the rules don't change based on the number of players. A bet is a bet, its not a start to a negotiation.

[steamboatin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This time, I decide to try the other strategy. I remove my chip from my cards and make a show of being about to fold, and tell Senor Gold the most I can call is $10. He immediately pulls back $15 of his bet, and I call.

The table erupts. "Can he do that?" "He can't do that!". They all look to the dealer, who says, "I don't think you can do that". I tell the dealer confidently "We are headsup, we can do what we want, and (waving at the table) it's none of their business". Jesus Gold tells the dealer just to finish dealing the hand, the dealer shrugs and produces a non king completing a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If i was dealing, the bets stays.
If the floor was called it stays.
It is irrelevant that you are heads up, the rules don't change based on the number of players. A bet is a bet, its not a start to a negotiation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume from your reply that you are a dealer. I won't ask where you deal because it is bad manners to out a dealer in this forum but I would like to know what market you are in.

It sounds like a relatively new market or somewhere that has restrictive laws because places that are serious about poker, usually let heads up players do whatever they want. This refers to higher limit games and usually doesn't apply to $2-4 or 3-6 limit holdem games.

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]

-$6,500 since mid October says that I am good for the game

[/ QUOTE ]

Running bad tends to lead to playing badly, chin up bro!

[youtalkfunny]

Some people need to get a grip. In the OP's story, the entire transaction was done in <15 seconds, and we're talking about $5 in a game that features $150 bets.

Why can't people think? When that urge to cry out about a possible infraction of a technicality overcomes them, why can't they take a second before speaking and think, "Geez, it's five bucks, and it's none of my business--why should I care?"

Unrelated story to illustrate my point: Room I work in is paying a $100 bonus to any player who makes quads, as long as he uses both his hole cards. Player turns up K5 on a 555K2 board. Instead of pushing the pot, I stop everything to call the floorman over confirm the bonus hand. Another player not involved in the pot decides he wants to argue about it:

JACKASS: That's not a bonus hand! The rules say that you need a pocket pair in the hole!

ME: No sir, that's not correct. Both cards must play, but a pocket pair is not necessary.

JACKASS: You're wrong!

ME: (shrug. I'm not going to repeat myself. He heard me clearly. I'm ignoring Jackass)

JACKASS: (gets up to go check the rules--can you imagine that? Returns, rules in hand) You're right, both cards must play. But his kicker doesn't play!

ME: (checks the board again) Sure it does.

JACKASS: No it doesn't!

ME: (lower my voice to counter Jackass' frenzied emotional voice) What do you care whether or not he gets paid a bonus?

JACKASS: (blinks hard. Instantly realizes that he has no standing in this. Leans back in his chair and sits out the rest of the transaction while Quad Boy gets paid his bonus.)

[UbinTook]

[ QUOTE ]
Some people need to get a grip. In the OP's story, the entire transaction was done in <15 seconds, and we're talking about $5 in a game that features $150 bets.

Why can't people think? When that urge to cry out about a possible infraction of a technicality overcomes them, why can't they take a second before speaking and think, "Geez, it's five bucks, and it's none of my business--why should I care?"


[/ QUOTE ]

...it was a $15 difference. The original bet was $25 , $15 was removed after the OP said " i can only call $10".
Does that change your stance?

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This time, I decide to try the other strategy. I remove my chip from my cards and make a show of being about to fold, and tell Senor Gold the most I can call is $10. He immediately pulls back $15 of his bet, and I call.

The table erupts. "Can he do that?" "He can't do that!". They all look to the dealer, who says, "I don't think you can do that". I tell the dealer confidently "We are headsup, we can do what we want, and (waving at the table) it's none of their business". Jesus Gold tells the dealer just to finish dealing the hand, the dealer shrugs and produces a non king completing a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If i was dealing, the bets stays.
If the floor was called it stays.
It is irrelevant that you are heads up, the rules don't change based on the number of players. A bet is a bet, its not a start to a negotiation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anywhere I've played, when heads up at any limit player can offer action, I.e. offer to go allin, if the opponent agrees. Is this not true at your room and if it is how does it differ?

[UbinTook]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This time, I decide to try the other strategy. I remove my chip from my cards and make a show of being about to fold, and tell Senor Gold the most I can call is $10. He immediately pulls back $15 of his bet, and I call.

The table erupts. "Can he do that?" "He can't do that!". They all look to the dealer, who says, "I don't think you can do that". I tell the dealer confidently "We are headsup, we can do what we want, and (waving at the table) it's none of their business". Jesus Gold tells the dealer just to finish dealing the hand, the dealer shrugs and produces a non king completing a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If i was dealing, the bets stays.
If the floor was called it stays.
It is irrelevant that you are heads up, the rules don't change based on the number of players. A bet is a bet, its not a start to a negotiation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume from your reply that you are a dealer. I won't ask where you deal because it is bad manners to out a dealer in this forum but I would like to know what market you are in.

It sounds like a relatively new market or somewhere that has restrictive laws because places that are serious about poker, usually let heads up players do whatever they want. This refers to higher limit games and usually doesn't apply to $2-4 or 3-6 limit holdem games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arizona.
That fact that i deal is not a secret.
You are correct in that there are restrictions on what can and cant be done in this market. Those restrictions are (for the most part) generally applied to ALL games, and are not limit specific. To this i would suggest that knowing the rules within your "market"( as a player) is paramount , not what happens elsewhere. Just because it is different does not make it incorrect.

You state that places that are "serious about poker" allow "high limit" to "do whatever they want" when heads up.
Define high limit as something other that "$2-4 or 3-6"
What about a fixed limit game say at 75/150...would you allow a river bet in that game to be reduced if the players saw fit?

Would you consider a 5-150 game a "high limit" game (that was the limit of the game in the OP) Remember, this is not a NL game it is in fact a "structured"( $150 cap bet with 3 raises), limit game. Does that change anything?

What is the cutoff limit to allow that players to change the betting?

Why draw the line at high limit? why not let the "low" limit players pull back partial bets? Are they not "serious" enough players?

[UbinTook]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This time, I decide to try the other strategy. I remove my chip from my cards and make a show of being about to fold, and tell Senor Gold the most I can call is $10. He immediately pulls back $15 of his bet, and I call.

The table erupts. "Can he do that?" "He can't do that!". They all look to the dealer, who says, "I don't think you can do that". I tell the dealer confidently "We are headsup, we can do what we want, and (waving at the table) it's none of their business". Jesus Gold tells the dealer just to finish dealing the hand, the dealer shrugs and produces a non king completing a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If i was dealing, the bets stays.
If the floor was called it stays.
It is irrelevant that you are heads up, the rules don't change based on the number of players. A bet is a bet, its not a start to a negotiation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anywhere I've played, when heads up at any limit player can offer action, I.e. offer to go allin, if the opponent agrees. Is this not true at your room and if it is how does it differ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because of the state mandated bet limit.
The maximum you can bet or raise at any given time is $150 maximum. You can go all in(heads-up), but in $150 increments, you cant just push if the players agree. That is just the rule in Arizona.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Your post is a shining example of why I refuse to watch poker on tv. Since I've been feeling especially flame-tounged today, I think I'll elaborate a bit on my thoughts about this situation ...

Might as well have been 2-4 limit, but you both need a collosal, peacocked stack of lowest denomination chips that were too small for the antes that were three rounds ago. Then we can give out hats and parkas with logos for crappy internet sites that are 90# props. Don't forget the headphones, so no one can hear the dealer (who's not doing his job anyway) or any of the other players either. I realize the two of you were bantering and posturing, but when so much baloney is spewing forth like vomitous chunks from a $6 hotdog you just bought in a tent, might as well throw in the headphones too.

Next, we have the "I'm a high-roller high limit poker player, therefore I can do anything I want whenever the hell I want" attitude. Don't forget to be extra rude to even the friendliest, most competent dealers, that way they'll be sure to tell the rio to screw off next year, leaving you with newbie schmucks who learned all they'll ever know from the wpt and espn, just like the two of you did.

Next, we tackle the dealer who needs to grow a friggin' pair already. The friggin' bet was made, therefore it's a bet. It's not friggin' negotiable, regardless of how much tv the players involved may have watched. I don't care if it's 2-4 or the jamie gold school of lying, cheating, and being an irritating jerk, there are just no negotiations like this that are acceptable, period. This remains true regardless of the quantity of headgear worn by the schmucks involved, all suffering from a combination of entitlement syndrome and ego-itis. I'll say it again because it necessitates repeating, grow a friggin' pair already.

I think I'm going to start promoting a new line of ball-gag headwear designed just for cardrooms, just for situations like this. It will have the registered trademark logo WWACJD? on all the straps and a beanie with a red propellor on top (just for effect). I'll probably make a friggin' bzillion dollas due to extraordinarily high demand, at which point I can make my final post here, which will read ...

Screw you guys, I'm going home.

But until then, I remain ever vigilant, ready to kick 'em all in the nuts first, and sort 'em out later.

Al