(razztoberfest) a hand against jacksquat - fold, will ya?

RustyBrooks · #1 10-07-2007, 01:26 AM

How bad is this?

* My raise on 3rd is to get the hand heads up, I don't actually expect my hand is *much* better than his, if it's better at all.
* 4th is the jackpot - I know he's not folding here due to pot size unless he was totally FOS on 3rd but I have to bet and he should fold 5th if I catch and he bricks
* whoops, 5th is a brick for me but I'm still ahead. Bet OK?
* 6th Another brick but it looks good. Bet OK?
* 7th - after the hand was over I felt sick for betting here because it did not leave me with much afterwards, the extra 800 would have been pretty helpful to have around. Given that he's come this far, if he called 6th he's calling here too and he almost has to have a T9. Should I just give up and check 7th? I think I'd almost always bet here in a cash game, unless, as I am here, I was almost all in after betting.

Tournament - Razz (400/800), Ante 75, Bring-In 100 (converter)

Seat 1: 8,999
Seat 2: 1,075
Seat 3: 7,348
Hero: 5,972
Seat 5: 2,987
Seat 7: 2,893
Seat 8: 3,726

3rd Street - (1.31 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes___raises
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 5: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds

4th Street - (7.56 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (4.78 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (6.78 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

River - (8.78 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

Total pot: (10.78 BB - 8,625)

mrmr · #2 10-07-2007, 03:35 AM

Check-raise 5th. It is certainly player dependent, but I'm hoping/assuming someone who would call 5th and 6th with those boards would also leap at the chance to bet if checked to on 5th.

Stack sizes and tournament level might be important considerations before taking this advice, though...

THEjDonk · #3 10-07-2007, 05:46 AM

I'm quite new to razz. I was wondering if capping on third street here is horrible.

Some arguments against it are that you have a rough draw, and you might want to wait for a better spot before commiting a lot of your chips in the tournament.

Some arguments for capping is that your cards are pretty live, and your opponent might not have a smooth seven.

Another thing that might be bad about capping, is that there's a chance that your opponent might (to some extent)guess your downcards if you cap it.

So what would you consider when deciding whether to cap it or not here, and what factors are more important?

THEjDonk · #4 10-07-2007, 07:03 AM

I incidentally ran 762 vs. 73A on twodimes. 762 had an EV of 0.515. Against 72A it only had an EV of 0.471. It's also in bad shape against 732, 742 and 752. I guess that means that you have to suspect that your opponent might have a pretty rough 7 or worse to cap it if you base the decision on EV...

RustyBrooks · #5 10-07-2007, 12:32 PM

Yeah, I'm not real keen on putting a lot of money in on 3rd, ranging between a small favorite and a small dog. His re-raise on 3rd says that he thinks he has a better 7 than me, but I think even that is overly aggressive.

I'm not sure that a check-raise on 5th would have accomplished anything. The chance that it checks through is too high and it would be awful for him to get a free card that makes us even money. The call on 5th seems awful enough that betting there should be right.

I played like this exact hand against this guy a couple times in the tournament (that is, I pick up a good draw, he picks up garbage, I never improve, he never folds). Towards the end I finally crippled *him* by calling down a little light. But at that point it was 3-handed and he was showing some awful bluff-completions (AAA at one point)

Merton0806 · #6 10-07-2007, 12:45 PM

isn't third normally a fold in tournaments esp. late on?

RustyBrooks · #7 10-07-2007, 01:36 PM

Huh? My hand is live - I have 3 pair cards out, and only one low card, an 8, missing. There's only an 8 to act after me and even if he's perfect in the hole, I'm only a 52:48 dog. Actually, assuming he has 2 unpaired cards under 6 in the hole, I'm a 52:48 favorite.

Praxising · #8 10-07-2007, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
isn't third normally a fold in tournaments esp. late on?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not when the 6 and 2 have folded and only higher cards are behind. Being a bad 7 you have to be cautious, but this opponent could have had literally anything in the hole.

Davdob · #9 10-07-2007, 08:26 PM

I actually think this is fine. You got unlucky. He very very stupidly chased complete crap and lucked out. Happens.

I think it would be VERY optomistic to expect someone to raise to a check on 5th with those cards showing.

*schnozberries* · #10 10-07-2007, 08:52 PM

I would call third and not raise. Why wouldn't you want others to join who are obviously behind? You also risk getting reraised by seat 3 with a A2 7 or similar.