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  #11  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:07 PM
Iconoclastic Iconoclastic is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

I'd love to see an analysis of Vladimir Guerrero or Ichiro's swings and approaches to hitting.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:23 PM
bosoxfan bosoxfan is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

My daughter just started with a hitting coach for softball. The focus has been on back leg load and push. This really helps me understand what she is talking about thnak you for posting this.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:25 PM
tdarko tdarko is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

[ QUOTE ]
-Bat drag: The elbows lead the bat into the zone. This causes a late bat and saps power; hitters with significant bat drag will never be able to hit 85+ MPH fastballs and will not hit for power.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the one move every great hitter makes, he leads with the front elbow--the worst thing you can teach is to tell a hitter to throw is hands at the ball or to throw the knob at the ball b/c that doesn't get you into a slot. This would be much easier if I were in person oh well.

Leading with the elbow puts the bat in a lag position which you said it makes it drag which isn't right. It also locks the back elbow into the ribs--the power position mentioned like in the bonds picture. The barrel moves at a rate at something like 9 or 10 times faster than your hands do--so obv you want your barrel to move the greater distance than your hands. When you lead with the elbow, your hands are at about your chest and the barrel is still back behind you. Now, the ball is right in front of the plate--upon swing/impact your hands only move 4 or 5 inches to the ball at this point whereas that barrel moves 2 feet or so--but we want this b/c it is moving at a much much faster rate than your hands, THIS is how you create power. That is bat release, if you don't lead with the elbow--which every single hitter in each video did--then you can't release the barrel through the zone and you lose a ton of power, instead your hands are swinging the barrel through the zone which is slower and less powerful not to mention incorrect directionally much of the time.

Watch big league hitters take a pitch, they are starting their swings even though they take but every time they lead w/ that elbow, their hips and elbow attack and then stop...b/c what was coming next was the rotation and the bat release. This would be a lot easier in person, it is hard to discuss over a message board--it is hands on stuff as you know.

Another thing leading w/ the elbow does is what I learned in a big league camp--it is called "hitting in a big zone." You are told all your life to "swing down on the ball" etc., but what happens is that when you swing down on the ball the barrel is only in the zone for a split second--at contact, so you have to "time" the pitch perfectly and we all know how tough that is. When you lead w/ the elbow and the bat lags the barrel drops into the hitting zone immediately and stays in the hitting zone upon the instant of bat release all the way through hand break when the ball is long gone from the equation. This made immediate sense to me b/c I could remember seeing some of the great hitters looking like they were completely beat on a great fastball and they drove it the other way in the gap--and it was b/c their barrel was in the hitting zone--they were way late timing the pitcher but their swing was great which allowed them to get a hit.

Good thread Kyle. I have to get to a game, I will check this thread later.
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:26 PM
Troll_Inc Troll_Inc is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

[ QUOTE ]
I like this thread. Please continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

100% continue. I don't even know why bother with a poll.

Excellent content, way better than this site probably deserves.

Anyone who voted "no" is a tard.
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:45 PM
ArcticKnight ArcticKnight is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

Great Thread Kyleb -

Some of "lag", "slot" and "butt end of the bat" explanations can be supplemented with side by side profiles of a batter and a golfer, if that helps some readers. It might help for some that are more familar with golf than baseball. Also, it might reinforce the fact that the hitting principles you discuss are matters that are not unique to baseball. The "storing of power (lag)" versus casting principles are, for the most part, the same in both the batting swing and golf swing. As is "from the ground up" approach the the swing sequence, and forearm rotation.

Great thread, keep up the good work. I think this thread and the follwing ones could provide a good veneue for you to feild newbie type questions, as well as some more complex questions around different approaches to hitting and teaching hitting.

Keep it up.

PS. I support your passion for the game.
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:58 PM
Dudd Dudd is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

About that Bonds video, is his flaw his weight transfer onto his front foot? If you compare it to the Pujols video where his front foot is firmly planted, it sure looks like Bonds is a lot more off balance at contact.
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  #17  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:59 PM
Rubeskies Rubeskies is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

Hey Kyle,

Great stuff.

My question has to do with "Intangibles."

You mentioned about great plate discipline (avoiding swinging at pitches in their weak zones early in the count). But what about other things that have to do with pitch recognition. As a pitcher in college and as a hitter in high school and summer leagues, I've noticed that certain hitters simply cannot identify the change-up or slider or curveball or splitter. These hitters have a really hard time against good pitchers that notice these things. Now I suppose everyone in the majors has to be decent at identifying these pitches, but my guess is that some are better than others.

For example, Bobby Abreu. When he is locked in, he often won't even flinch at a really good curveball because he recognizes it almost when it leaves the pitchers hands.

Micky Mantle was quoted as saying that he would be an average hitter today because he can't pick up the spin on a slider.

How important is this to hitting or is it one of those things like catcher's calling a good game that don't have much impact on the outcome?

Also, comparing the Bonds and the Mauer videos, Bonds looks perfectly balanced while Mauer looks a bit off balance (his front foot is all over the place). Is this just an unlucky video or does he always look that off balance? Or am I just interpreting the herky jerky motions incorrectly?
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  #18  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:18 PM
PokerFink PokerFink is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

Hey Kyleb, great stuff!

1) I thought you were more into pitching than hitting, so it surprises me that you're a hitting coach and not a pitching coach. What gives?

2) What's your opinion on the Moneyball idea that tools/scouts are largely irrelevant and all you need is a player's stats?

(Also, does anyone else read his name as Kyleb (Ky-Leb) instead of Kyle B? Or am I the only idiot?)
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  #19  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:21 PM
jlocdog jlocdog is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

Kyleb,

I would be very interested in seeing more players swings and having you break them down and compare them with other players of similar talent (ie. a Jose Reyes vs. an Ichiro or a Matt holiday vs. a Lance Berkman). Not that you need to use these specific players but rather players who have similar characteristics yet go about it in similar/different ways...

You da man by the way for this thread. Good stuff.
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  #20  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:42 PM
DesertCat DesertCat is offline
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Default Re: Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

Why is hitting for average a tool and controlling the plate for high OBP not? OBP >>> BA.

For example, Mark McGwire's career BA was .263 vs. a league adjusted average of .262. But his career OBP was .394 vs. a league adjusted average of .332. Was he an average hitter?
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