Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > Internet Gambling > Internet Gambling

View Poll Results: Who is hotter?
Charlize Theron 160 42.11%
Ana Beatriz Barros 220 57.89%
Voters: 380. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #851  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:32 PM
MicroBob MicroBob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The cat is back by popular demand.
Posts: 29,344
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

any reason why sillysal is not presenting those explanations in this thread?
There does seem to be the possibility that she hasn't been 100% forthcoming in all this.
By some of the reactions she's gotten around here I can hardly blame her but it seems like there might be a bit more to some of her evasiveness than just the general rudeness of the pack.

And I'm not even 100% sure she's been THAT evasive at all really. Just a hunch I guess which may be fueled by some of the accusations or interpretations made by gehrig and others.
Reply With Quote
  #852  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:41 PM
apefish apefish is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: To the pain
Posts: 4,673
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

A little effective comunication at key points during the process probably keeps threads like this in check.

There is a reason FT threads tend to get out of hand.
We don't have to look further than the thread about the account being locked, no explanation given, and no replies to emails while the person went out of their mind thinking they were hacked to see that.

Lack of communication is clearly a problem. Sure, Full Tilt owes the general public nothing. But they owe their customers more at times, and the appearance of serving customers well certainly has to be in their long term interest.

If sillysal was/is guilty obviously the outcome is fine.
These threads are as much about the process though (or more) than they are the outcomes at this point.

Surely one cannot argue the hours that other person had their account locked and no explanation given before finally being told "oh yeah... that was nothing, you can play again" by FT is an okay way of doing business.

There are clearly a faction of players who want to give Full Tilt more business than they currently do but who are frustrated by some things in the support/customer service area and cannot justify it at this point.
I would think Full Tilt would want that business also.


edit: bob, I agree that there was something that didn't always feel 100 percent forthcoming from sal and it probably got lost in the shuffle a bit. That said I wouldnt begrudge anyone reconsidering the publicness of any issue like this at any point regardless of guilt/innocence.
Reply With Quote
  #853  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:40 PM
Mike Haven Mike Haven is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Zoo, ATF, EB, etc
Posts: 7,043
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

If she is guilty, then obviously she's going to try to give me reasonable explanations for the stats being what they were, in the hope that my contact with FTP would work to her advantage.

If she is innocent, she is going to give me explanations for the stats being what they were, because for a time I was a kind of middle-man, and both sides were, (apparently, to me), respecting my comments.

Having made the OP and, (definitely, imo), forced FTP to give a much higher priority to studying her case as thoroughly as possible, whether she is guilty or innocent, I can understand that she was "happy" to withdraw somewhat from the public debate. Her goal had been achieved, whatever we, here, wanted to read for our interest and/or amusement.

Maybe now that the case is finally closed for good, we will hear more from sillysal?
Reply With Quote
  #854  
Old 11-28-2007, 04:44 AM
Rek Rek is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 747
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe now that the case is finally closed for good, we will hear more from sillysal?

[/ QUOTE ]
I really hope we don’t.

If you seek support from people (whether they are friends, family or strangers) and they help you achieve your objectives the very least you owe them is the truth and keeping them informed of proceedings. She has received enormous support from this forum. Whilst I was in the minority who seemed to understand how FTP needed to do an investigation I did state that FTP could improve the way they handle such cases. Also I believe sillysal should have the right to counter any claims against her.

I don’t want to hear from sillysal ever again and when she finally came back and gave us the update on her age that was the final straw. I said I was no longer going to post on this subject but now the investigation is complete I think there is something that should be done.

FTP has been very secretive and silent throughout. Whether they have merely confiscated $47K from a cheat I don’t know but I hope that is the case. However, their procedures should be a lot more transparent and their information given to the player of a suspended account should be more accurate and timely.

Many players here no longer feel comfortable at FTP. Not because they doubt the honesty of the games but they are worried, if they are accused, their money will be seized with no recourse and no real explanation as to the charges against them. I think a petition should be organised that we can all put our names to and submit this to FTP:
• We want to know how we can have a fair “hearing” if we are accused of wrongdoing.
• We want an immediate email when the account is suspended as to what we are being accused of.
• We want a realistic timescale as to how long an investigation is going to take.
If a moderator here could organise such a petition I for one would put my name on it.

FTP cannot go into every detail of an individual case and for obvious reasons will not do so. They are however damaging their reputation by their silence.

Advice to future posters: if you seek support from a forum be prepared to sacrifice a little of your time to keep those supporters updated. It is polite and the least you can do.
Reply With Quote
  #855  
Old 11-28-2007, 06:53 AM
Mike Haven Mike Haven is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Zoo, ATF, EB, etc
Posts: 7,043
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[ QUOTE ]
If a moderator here could organise such a petition I for one would put my name on it.


[/ QUOTE ]



Posted here.
Reply With Quote
  #856  
Old 11-28-2007, 12:59 PM
Mike Haven Mike Haven is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Zoo, ATF, EB, etc
Posts: 7,043
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

Here is what I have been permitted to pass on. I have asked for one more item of information to be released, and this will follow, if possible:

"Here is a summary of the pertinent details surrounding this case:

• Statistical profiling of the playing style of "pokergirl z" indicated some highly suspicious behavior, suggesting that the player could be using a computer program to make decisions.

• The player was questioned about this, and made a series of responses.

• The compiled evidence and the player's explanations were reviewed by senior staff of Full Tilt Poker, and presented to me for independent assessment.

• The player's arguments were found to have little or no merit, contained many inconsistencies and contradictions, and did not adequately explain the anomalous behavior.

• The player in question admitted to being dishonest in the disclosure of the circumstances surrounding the games in question.

• The player admitted to a violation of Full Tilt Poker policy by using multiple accounts, and initially lied about the use of those accounts.

• It was determined that gross misconduct had taken place, and it was decided that the seized funds should be redistributed to the victims.

From my perspective, the posts by "sillysal" to the 2+2 forums were highly selective, told less than half the story, and were clearly intended to mislead the 2+2 community.

The case is now closed.

Thank-you for your role in explaining the details of this case to the 2+2 community."
Reply With Quote
  #857  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:39 PM
KurtSF KurtSF is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,983
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

Sounds kinda like nabbing Al Capone for tax evasion. They took her money for "botting", couldn't prove it, found out she had multiple accounts, figured that would do, and used it as grounds to keep the money.

Meh, I think everyone looks pretty bad here.
Reply With Quote
  #858  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:49 PM
LateNiteRush LateNiteRush is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 117
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

I know I posted this before, but now with this update from Mike Haven, I will say it again... I am so naive, here I was honesetly feeling sorry for sillysal. I was scared to play at FTP. I said to myself "this poor honest woman has had all of her funds taken away for no reason at all". And now I read Mike haven's post. All I can say is "wow". From now on, I will wait until all the evidence is laid before Mike Haven or the 2+2 community. I have lost faith in the human race, but I will say good job FTP for your investigation. Take care.
Reply With Quote
  #859  
Old 11-28-2007, 03:13 PM
Jorge10 Jorge10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Now Moving
Posts: 1,717
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The consultant recommended to FTP that they redistribute the seized funds to the victims.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully, we will soon hear from those whom sillysal victimized that they have received compensation from FTP.

What continues to mystify me is why sillysal, BeatMe1, ericjones, etc., continue to post these sob stories here when it should be quite evident that FTP is unlikely to be influenced by members of this forum in the conduct of its investigations of fraud and/or cheating. I've come to the conclusion that only a truly guilty person is going to waste their time pleading their case here since a truly innocent person would be making far better use of their time by pursuing whatever legal remedies are available.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they continue to post their stories for 2 reasons.

1) They hope that by some miracle Full Tilt will buy their stories and unlock their accounts. They are desperate and have no other recourse so they figure, if I spend a few minutes making a post something might come of it. They usually lose well over 20K. I think most people would devote a few minutes if they might get 20K back for it. Also as Microbob pointed out Full Tilt has unlocked accounts based on posts on this forum.

2) They want to know what kind of method Full Tilt and other places used to track them. This information could help them get better at cheating and make them uncatchable next time, which is always the goal.
Reply With Quote
  #860  
Old 11-28-2007, 04:09 PM
indianaV8 indianaV8 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 263
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[ QUOTE ]


I think they continue to post their stories for 2 reasons.

1) They hope that by some miracle Full Tilt will buy their stories and unlock their accounts. They are desperate and have no other recourse so they figure, if I spend a few minutes making a post something might come of it. They usually lose well over 20K. I think most people would devote a few minutes if they might get 20K back for it. Also as Microbob pointed out Full Tilt has unlocked accounts based on posts on this forum.

2) They want to know what kind of method Full Tilt and other places used to track them. This information could help them get better at cheating and make them uncatchable next time, which is always the goal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are correct in 1) and you are wrong in 2)

I don't believe a bot was used.

What I think is that case is that someone developed poker playing program and is offering it to high profile players.

No botting - you click yourself. And the software should not neccessarily run on the same PC.

That's what I'm actually always saying. There is nothing evil in bots, in term of automated play. This (using bot) gives no advantage. You can't tilt - come on ... you win money on the 0.05/0.10$ and deplete the fishes - come on ... It is the same amount of effort as to become a pro player. And any rule based strategy is no different than a pro play - you need to continiously learn and change and adapt it to sustain winning.

The danger (or the imminent point) is when a game get solved, from game theory standpoint. And that is what will happen very soon to heads up limit. Then the game is dead. There is nothing in the world that can stop this, nothing. People will build hardware calculator, and any statistical attempts to catch it will be after many many many thousands of hands.

Even worse. Many HU limit players play very good, so good, like optimal play. Due to the amount of hands they play, they do mechanise most of their play. So it will be hard for a casino to really distinguish a winning player using computer from a winning pro.

Just look at the Polaris vs Laak match. Very few people know (you have to read Mike's thesis) that Polaris actualy beat the humans (this was HU Limit). The human won with statistical significance, but by removing luck that you can remove (theoretically) the bottom line was that the bots played better. So imagine how good Laak should have played ...

On the positive side, anything different than HU poker, and even HU no limit has many years to prosper. Bots are irrelevant to this prosperity. When these games get solved, they wll be dead, and will come the next one (for the online case).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.