60k "Staking" dispute

[aggie]

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BoostedJ,

There is alot of confusion here, but there are several things that are very clear.

1) Most people have a high opinion of your poker talents
2) You care deeply about your reputation in the poker community
3) The overwelming percentage of people reading this thread (including me) are of the opinion that you scammed the OP. That doesnt mean you did it intentionally. It means that he got the raw end of the deal.

Add #2 and #3 together and you should be making every attempt to fix the situation. You should go out of your way to publicly make the situation right. Now if you dont give a [censored] about what people think and you truly believe you did nothing wrong, then dont worry about it. But you obviously DO care what your peers think and they think you did something shady (even if it was unintentional), so you need to right the wrong.

Maybe youve already done righted the wrong since some deal was made with OP, but there also seems to be some question in peoples minds whether or not that deal was totally fair to OP. I dont know enough of the details to give an opinion on that so I wont.


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I pretty much agree with everything here but also want to add a couple of thoughts:

-OP is an idiot for being so careless with 60k. How could you enter into a staking arangement without discussing details?

-Boosted is also an idiot and seems to be kidding himself since he thinks he did nothing wrong here. And if he cares about his rep he's also an idiot for entering into a staking arangement without discussing details.

-The utter disregard for huge amounts of money amongst the HSP players here is amazing. I'm truly jealous.

-I truly don't understand how it's so easy for good people with good intentions to be so cavalear about asking for a loan or to be staked. Asking for a loan is the last thing i'd ever want to do. If money is tight for me (for whatever reason) i'm not going to be asking to be staked so i can play nosebleed stakes.

[Boosted J]

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There are HOURS more of conversation between me and yoguh, which I know includes me telling him repeatedly that as long as he has a big enough bankroll, and I can stay in this game, I will eventually start winning.

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Um...you play one of the swingier styles out there. Did you mention that the bankroll he would need to have allocated just for bankrolling you to guarantee you see a positive return is probably, at the minimum, 300k? You think he thought he was signing up for that?

OP: YOU GOT BOOOOOOOOOOOOSTED!

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300k for mostly 25/50 and 40/80??? You're terribly mistaken. He's been playing high stakes 1 year longer than I have...why should I even have to explain to him anything? Shouldnt he know this easily by now? You guys are treating this situation like yoguh is a toddler

[HP]

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so I would've been able to play at least $40k hands I would say.

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Inquiring minds wish to know how you reconcile this statement with "100% no risk"

Or is this one of those things where "obviously I didn't mean 100% no risk. I meant like 95%"

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According to general poker theory, winning players will eventually win. There are HOURS more of conversation between me and yoguh, which I know includes me telling him repeatedly that as long as he has a big enough bankroll, and I can stay in this game, I will eventually start winning. I told him that over and over, but obviously he doesnt want to include the other parts of the conversation. Unfortunately, I dont have AIM set up to log convos. Only he had it.

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Fair enough. But then why this talk of only giving him 40k hands of make up? It sounds like you've guaranteed him an unlimited number of hands - until you are break even at least

[aggie]

Quote from boosted before he is identified as the loanee:

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From when it went from "loaning" to "staking", it is a stake where you take risk.

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him: stake me and I'll provide makeup if I lose
him: that way it's 100% no loss for you


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Hmm, definitely seems shady to me. If OP doesn't end up somehow getting 60k back he definitely got screwed (not that it isn't his own fault).

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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There are HOURS more of conversation between me and yoguh, which I know includes me telling him repeatedly that as long as he has a big enough bankroll, and I can stay in this game, I will eventually start winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um...you play one of the swingier styles out there. Did you mention that the bankroll he would need to have allocated just for bankrolling you to guarantee you see a positive return is probably, at the minimum, 300k? You think he thought he was signing up for that?

OP: YOU GOT BOOOOOOOOOOOOSTED!

[/ QUOTE ]

300k for mostly 25/50 and 40/80??? You're terribly mistaken. He's been playing high stakes 1 year longer than I have...why should I even have to explain to him anything? Shouldnt he know this easily by now? You guys are treating this situation like yoguh is a toddler

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When you said "and I can stay in this game" I obviously interpreted that as 75/150 deep. Obviously 300k is way more than you would need for 25/50 and 40/80. I still stand by my BOOOOOOSTED comment though.

[Boosted J]

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BoostedJ,

There is alot of confusion here, but there are several things that are very clear.

1) Most people have a high opinion of your poker talents
2) You care deeply about your reputation in the poker community
3) The overwelming percentage of people reading this thread (including me) are of the opinion that you scammed the OP. That doesnt mean you did it intentionally. It means that he got the raw end of the deal.

Add #2 and #3 together and you should be making every attempt to fix the situation. You should go out of your way to publicly make the situation right. Now if you dont give a [censored] about what people think and you truly believe you did nothing wrong, then dont worry about it. But you obviously DO care what your peers think and they think you did something shady (even if it was unintentional), so you need to right the wrong.

Maybe youve already done righted the wrong since some deal was made with OP, but there also seems to be some question in peoples minds whether or not that deal was totally fair to OP. I dont know enough of the details to give an opinion on that so I wont.


[/ QUOTE ]

I pretty much agree with everything here but also want to add a couple of thoughts:

-OP is an idiot for being so careless with 60k. How could you enter into a staking arangement without discussing details?

-Boosted is also an idiot and seems to be kidding himself since he thinks he did nothing wrong here. And if he cares about his rep he's also an idiot for entering into a staking arangement without discussing details.

-The utter disregard for huge amounts of money amongst the HSP players here is amazing. I'm truly jealous.

-I truly don't understand how it's so easy for good people with good intentions to be so cavalear about asking for a loan or to be staked. Asking for a loan is the last thing i'd ever want to do. If money is tight for me (for whatever reason) i'm not going to be asking to be staked so i can play nosebleed stakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you aggie. That's fine. It's a personal preference. I've loaned and staked over 20 high stakes players, I've also borrowed and loaned out to more than that, although I've never ever had a problem...It's common for a lot of people, you just happen to not be in the group of people who use staking and borrowing in common practice, which is perfectly fine, and leads to a little less complications.

[Boosted J]

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There are HOURS more of conversation between me and yoguh, which I know includes me telling him repeatedly that as long as he has a big enough bankroll, and I can stay in this game, I will eventually start winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um...you play one of the swingier styles out there. Did you mention that the bankroll he would need to have allocated just for bankrolling you to guarantee you see a positive return is probably, at the minimum, 300k? You think he thought he was signing up for that?

OP: YOU GOT BOOOOOOOOOOOOSTED!

[/ QUOTE ]

300k for mostly 25/50 and 40/80??? You're terribly mistaken. He's been playing high stakes 1 year longer than I have...why should I even have to explain to him anything? Shouldnt he know this easily by now? You guys are treating this situation like yoguh is a toddler

[/ QUOTE ]

When you said "and I can stay in this game" I obviously interpreted that as 75/150 deep. Obviously 300k is way more than you would need for 25/50 and 40/80. I still stand by my BOOOOOOSTED comment though.

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Why are you still talking about 75/150 deep? For me and yoguh, it was 37.5/75 NL. Also, I believe when I started playing 40/80 and 37.5/75 NL, I had built the bankroll to $80k<. For a period of time, the bankroll was at $120k+.

[bkholdem]

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BoostedJ,

There is alot of confusion here, but there are several things that are very clear.

1) Most people have a high opinion of your poker talents
2) You care deeply about your reputation in the poker community
3) The overwelming percentage of people reading this thread (including me) are of the opinion that you scammed the OP. That doesnt mean you did it intentionally. It means that he got the raw end of the deal.

Add #2 and #3 together and you should be making every attempt to fix the situation. You should go out of your way to publicly make the situation right. Now if you dont give a [censored] about what people think and you truly believe you did nothing wrong, then dont worry about it. But you obviously DO care what your peers think and they think you did something shady (even if it was unintentional), so you need to right the wrong.

Maybe youve already done righted the wrong since some deal was made with OP, but there also seems to be some question in peoples minds whether or not that deal was totally fair to OP. I dont know enough of the details to give an opinion on that so I wont.

PS..It seems a bit suspicious to me that you didnt want your name "outted" to the community. If you truly believed you were in the right, why would you care if anyone knew it was you? Or was it just that you didnt want anyone knowing you needed a stake?

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I dont like my name around any sort of controversy regardless, because there's no good to it. Shady is a really bad term to use if it was unintentional(which if there was any wrong doing done, it was unintentional). Shady is when someone hides the truth and tries to scheme, and that's certainly NOT what I did. By the way, yoguh suggest the deal that we already agreed to. So what, am I going to get blamed for something he suggested now if people think it's unfair?

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It's pretty obvious he's not the sharpest tac in the box to begin with (no offense dude, maybe you were blinded by being a fan of a high stakes player or something). He was also negotiating under duress as it seems he was under the impression that he was getting nothing back. And since he was waking up to the realization that the '100% no risk deal' was gonna possibly bankrupt him (assming he doens't have a million to back you) it's not surprising he would make a deal to get whatever he could get back, 'something is better than nothing.'

Personally, I would like to know more details from OP about how the various events transpired, his experience 'backing' as compared to gambling by putting up money for 'taking a shot', the other details of the converstation to simply get a better idea of what went on.

If the deal is fair then it is fair. If it is not fair it is not fair.

However, if you made some '100% no risk guarantee' to my mom or my sister under these circumstances you would have BIG problems.

[aggie]

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Good for you aggie. That's fine. It's a personal preference. I've loaned and staked over 20 high stakes players, I've also borrowed and loaned out to more than that, although I've never ever had a problem...It's common for a lot of people, you just happen to not be in the group of people who use staking and borrowing in common practice, which is perfectly fine, and leads to a little less complications.

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I guess it's not so much that you're borrowing or getting staked. What amazes me is how little is discussed when these things happen. A staking arangement is a pretty complicated thing. I'm just shocked that neither of you thought it was important to discuss any details at all. You didn't discuss how long the arngement would last, what % of winnings the staker would get, how make-up would work, etc. And now you're both in a crappy spot. OP feels like he's getting screwed and Boosted feels like his rep is unjustly being tarnished......Guess what....It's your own fault!

[Boosted J]

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BoostedJ,

There is alot of confusion here, but there are several things that are very clear.

1) Most people have a high opinion of your poker talents
2) You care deeply about your reputation in the poker community
3) The overwelming percentage of people reading this thread (including me) are of the opinion that you scammed the OP. That doesnt mean you did it intentionally. It means that he got the raw end of the deal.

Add #2 and #3 together and you should be making every attempt to fix the situation. You should go out of your way to publicly make the situation right. Now if you dont give a [censored] about what people think and you truly believe you did nothing wrong, then dont worry about it. But you obviously DO care what your peers think and they think you did something shady (even if it was unintentional), so you need to right the wrong.

Maybe youve already done righted the wrong since some deal was made with OP, but there also seems to be some question in peoples minds whether or not that deal was totally fair to OP. I dont know enough of the details to give an opinion on that so I wont.

PS..It seems a bit suspicious to me that you didnt want your name "outted" to the community. If you truly believed you were in the right, why would you care if anyone knew it was you? Or was it just that you didnt want anyone knowing you needed a stake?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont like my name around any sort of controversy regardless, because there's no good to it. Shady is a really bad term to use if it was unintentional(which if there was any wrong doing done, it was unintentional). Shady is when someone hides the truth and tries to scheme, and that's certainly NOT what I did. By the way, yoguh suggest the deal that we already agreed to. So what, am I going to get blamed for something he suggested now if people think it's unfair?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty obvious he's not the sharpest tac in the box to begin with (no offense dude, maybe you were blinded by being a fan of a high stakes player or something). He was also negotiating under duress as it seems he was under the impression that he was getting nothing back. And since he was waking up to the realization that the '100% no risk deal' was gonna possibly bankrupt him (assming he doens't have a million to back you) it's not surprising he would make a deal to get whatever he could get back, 'something is better than nothing.'

Personally, I would like to know more details from OP about how the various events transpired, his experience 'backing' as compared to gambling by putting up money for 'taking a shot', the other details of the converstation to simply get a better idea of what went on.

If the deal is fair then it is fair. If it is not fair it is not fair.

However, if you made some '100% no risk guarantee' to my mom or my sister under these circumstances you would have BIG problems.

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You're very mature and you sound uber tough by e-thugging it implying violence. Anybody trying anthing violent towards me in this stage of my life right now would be truly terrible judgement on their part. BKHoldem, really do must have some sort of grudge being that your post count in this thread is so high, actually it might be more than mine or the OP's. I'm too lazy to count, though.