QQ 4bet shoved against

smartalecc5 · #1 12-15-2006, 01:11 AM

Original raiser is 16/ 11 and the button 3better is 20/17. My thoughts were that if flop came all undercards I didn't want to stack off to AA or KK. (is call a good option? But I don't like that being OOP with two tight players who are in a 3way 3bet pot). 4betting with QQ I felt AA KK would shove, and AK and QQ maybe call. I have not been out of the line at this table so theres no reason to suspect me of trying fancy stuff.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($891.75)
MP ($433)
Button ($581)
Hero ($711.30)
BB ($391.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $16, 1 fold, Button raises to $50, Hero raises to $158, 1 fold, UTG folds, Button raises to $581, Hero folds.

Mench · #2 12-15-2006, 03:00 AM

This is a gross spot seeing as how if you cold call UTG can repop, calling defines your hand real well, and button hasnt dhown any super laggro tendencies.

I dont like the 4 bet fold to shove, so I guess fold preflop?

aejones · #3 12-15-2006, 03:05 AM

I cold call a lot of four bets here, and I might with QQ too here, DEFINITELY this deep.

It's not easy, but seriously learning to play in 3-bet pots and big multiway pots and to control the tone and size of the pot is just mind blowing.

Also, I guess after you make this weird four bet preflop, folding is the right play.

It just looks real gross and is why I don't like four betting in the first place- but vs aggro button after UTG raiser he can pozz you here with AK pretty profitably.

JOHNY CA$H · #4 12-15-2006, 03:19 AM

Seems standard.

74o_Clownsuit · #5 12-15-2006, 03:43 AM

Is reraise the best play because calling just gives away our hand anyway?

If you're Villian in the BU wouldn't you just want to call the 4bet? I know I would.

EDIT: *groan* or would that be too obvious too lol

smartalecc5 · #6 12-15-2006, 11:45 AM

Ok ae, but lets say flop comes J 7 6. Do we even have a plan. If I check hes gonna throw out 2/3 - all in psb. And if we call here its for our stack later in teh hand (tho I'd prefer c/ring if I was gonna commit my stack."

Basicaly, do we play this for set value and c/f unders or go to war?

aejones · #7 12-15-2006, 01:24 PM

When you call and the flop comes jack hi he going to play very very very inline against you. This is 2/4, if the guy has any "hand reading" skills, he should know that your cold call is likely 99+, AK. I'd be cold calling with two aces here.

Therefore, if the flop goes check, bet, you can't really beat anything except the other two queens, right? If the flop comes 8 high, sometimes it will go check call, and he'll shutdown without a pair, and you'll know o nthe turn/ river whether he's got two kings or aces or top set or something or if he's got got two tens or ace king.

To balance this, I'm often check calling on dry boards with sets, sometimes even aces.