Inducing a bluff

[SNOWBALL]

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Commerce 40/80. Game is playing very very tight and it's not that great, but we're about to break (and unbeknownst to me I'm about to move to an awesome game for the last 2 hours of the night).

Folded to me in the CO, I open AQ. SB calls, BB folds.

Flop 855. Check, I bet, he calls.
Turn A. He checks, I check?

(Plan is for him to bet the river and I raise any card that isn't an 8, T, or J.)

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If you don't think he has anything, why raise the river? If you think he has a 5, why raise the river? If you think he has an ace, why not bet the turn?

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if we check behind and raise most rivers:

if he has an ace, we make the same (unless villain would cr, but we lose less if he has AK)
if he has KQ, or something, we gain 1 bet from his bluff
if he has a five, we may lose less, because we might have to calldown a turn CR and payoff river, whereas we should be able to fold to a river 3bet methinks

[Nate.]

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Commerce 40/80. Game is playing very very tight and it's not that great, but we're about to break (and unbeknownst to me I'm about to move to an awesome game for the last 2 hours of the night).

Folded to me in the CO, I open AQ. SB calls, BB folds.

Flop 855. Check, I bet, he calls.
Turn A. He checks, I check?

(Plan is for him to bet the river and I raise any card that isn't an 8, T, or J.)

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If you don't think he has anything, why raise the river? If you think he has a 5, why raise the river? If you think he has an ace, why not bet the turn?

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PokerBob--

If you don't think this is a persuasive argument, why post it? If you do think this is a persuasive argument, why not post in Beginners?

Justin--

You're right on in this thread, as usual.

Joker--

I think you should bet this turn, just because it looks like such an autobetting card. Your hand is so strong that a checkraise isn't even such a nasty possibility. I admire your creativity here, and maybe I'm misinterpreting what the relevant ranges are here, but even under the conditions you describe I think this is a bet. (And I think someone should make explicit the elementary obvious point that even a relatively harmless free card still carries a little bit of danger.)

--Nate

[Captain R]

I sometimes play this hand this way when I'm OOP as opposed to in position. I.e. I open with AK, one caller on the button.

Flop is 8-8-2. I bet, he thinks and calls. Turn is A, I check-call.

I think it works better OOP because you're often not going to lose a bet, whereas in position you automatically lose 1 BB on the turn if he has anything.

But I only do this in tight, tough tables where it's hard to scratch out any profit.

[PokerBob]

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Commerce 40/80. Game is playing very very tight and it's not that great, but we're about to break (and unbeknownst to me I'm about to move to an awesome game for the last 2 hours of the night).

Folded to me in the CO, I open AQ. SB calls, BB folds.

Flop 855. Check, I bet, he calls.
Turn A. He checks, I check?

(Plan is for him to bet the river and I raise any card that isn't an 8, T, or J.)

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If you don't think he has anything, why raise the river? If you think he has a 5, why raise the river? If you think he has an ace, why not bet the turn?

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PokerBob--

If you don't think this is a persuasive argument, why post it? If you do think this is a persuasive argument, why not post in Beginners?


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I'm not sure what argument you are referring to. (Maybe there is a post I missed by reading in flat mode or something?)

I merely asked a few questions that IMO one should be asking when they find themselves in this spot. PJ does not give any read on this guy, so I am assuming he is unknown. Doing anything other than checking the turn and calling the river vs. an unknown in this spot is absurd IMO.

[SNOWBALL]

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Doing anything other than checking the turn and calling the river vs. an unknown in this spot is absurd IMO.

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that is easily the worst possible line

[Sailboats]

Sometimes people try and get needlessly fancy. I think Bet-Bet line works well for this situation.

[PokerBob]

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Doing anything other than checking the turn and calling the river vs. an unknown in this spot is absurd IMO.

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that is easily the worst possible line

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please explain.

[Nate.]

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Commerce 40/80. Game is playing very very tight and it's not that great, but we're about to break (and unbeknownst to me I'm about to move to an awesome game for the last 2 hours of the night).

Folded to me in the CO, I open AQ. SB calls, BB folds.

Flop 855. Check, I bet, he calls.
Turn A. He checks, I check?

(Plan is for him to bet the river and I raise any card that isn't an 8, T, or J.)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't think he has anything, why raise the river? If you think he has a 5, why raise the river? If you think he has an ace, why not bet the turn?

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PokerBob--

If you don't think this is a persuasive argument, why post it? If you do think this is a persuasive argument, why not post in Beginners?


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I'm not sure what argument you are referring to. (Maybe there is a post I missed by reading in flat mode or something?)

I merely asked a few questions that IMO one should be asking when they find themselves in this spot. PJ does not give any read on this guy, so I am assuming he is unknown. Doing anything other than checking the turn and calling the river vs. an unknown in this spot is absurd IMO.

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PB--

Sorry if I misinterpreted you, but it seemed unlikely that was anything other than an implicit argument. Otherwise you're just asking, "hey, have you considered that maybe he caught a piece of the board?"

I think your line vs. an unknown doesn't get near enough money in the pot. I think that you should bet the turn, and if you get raised I'd three-bet a lot of guys live. Maybe not as a standard thing, but it should be considered. He can even be c/r'ing worse for value.

--Nate

[PokerBob]

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I think your line vs. an unknown doesn't get near enough money in the pot. I think that you should bet the turn, and if you get raised I'd three-bet a lot of guys live.


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Huh?

[Kel.H.Z.]

situational play, u know the players, so it's ur decision.
just a thought, imo inducing a bluff works better when u didn't improve ur hand, check the turn in position and then call a river bet. after the turn, ur hand is much easier to induce a bluff on the turn (if he had an ace he'll raise u when u bet, and call u down w/ any pair anyways assuming he's the type of pay-off-wizard who would pay off ur river raise) raising the river there is too "tricky" of a play for limit, missing value on the turn and underestimate ur opponent (of course u r the only one that knows the opponent)'s folding ability. if u think he has an ace in that spot (assuming he'll call ur river raise), y not bet both turn and river in position instead of risking not getting called on the river raise?

oops this is replied to OP, new to forums