Angelo: Fastrolling

[NickMPK]

I liked the writing style of this article, but it seemed like a very strange choice for an excerpt given the audience of the magazine. Would 2+2 not permit the author to post an actual strategy excerpt or something?

[Dynasty]

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I liked the writing style of this article, but it seemed like a very strange choice for an excerpt given the audience of the magazine. Would 2+2 not permit the author to post an actual strategy excerpt or something?

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Tommy chose the excerpt himself. I'm sure I would have accepted any excerpt he provided.

[limon]

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I'd like to present an argument for fastrolling. It comes up most in Omaha, but sometimes holdem. If you show your hand your opponent might not realize he has it beat. Maybe he backdoored a flush that he forgot he had. just show that nut straight and let him see it. He might just fold 2 pair or a busted low, not realizing he backed into the flush.

In holdem, the counterfeited kicker hand is probably the most common example. Flop comes AK373. Just flip over AQ, and say "Ace Queen". Don't
say Aces up or anything that is an overt lie. Just draw attention to your queen. Sometimes people forget about the way the K saved their sorry ass A5off suit. After all, they are stupid enough to play that hand, so clearly they could be stupid enough to miread the board at the end. If you don't fastroll, he flips A5 FACE UP and the dealer will (probably) save him from himself.

Is this angle shooting? Maybe, but I'm comfortable with it from an ethics point of view.

Jim Morgan

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i always "fastroll"...always. i try to direct the strength of my hands (as noted above) and get players w/ winning or tying hands to fold every now and then. i also play so few hands that its a good chance to bring attention to a holding which is a misrepresentation of my game. i also like to keep the game moving and i am a donks best friend.

from reading this exerpt i get the feeling that im gonna like tommys book, much like i like barry's and doyles portion of the original SS. i cant read poker books that actually discuss the playing of hands too much. i dont know if this bodes well for sales though.

[Dr_Doctr]

Being taught how to be 'ethical' is not what I or probably most readers of 2+2 magazine read it for, whether they agree or disagree with sentiment of the author. As for the content, why not just make a rule that says both players must show cards immediately at the end of the hand - or that verbal announcements are not allowed and whoever is supposed to show must do so or their hand will be declared dead. This would cut out all the 'ethical' [censored] (read angle-shooting, slowing the game down, mind-games, people being unsure what to do for lack of a rule)

As the rules (or lack of them) stand now, this poster seems correct -

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I always wait my turn against a verbal announcer, and I tell them to stop slowing the game down when they don't want to turn their cards over, however strong my hand is.


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[Collin Moshman]

This really is an excellent point in favor of fastrolling:

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I'd like to present an argument for fastrolling. It comes up most in Omaha, but sometimes holdem. If you show your hand your opponent might not realize he has it beat. Maybe he backdoored a flush that he forgot he had. just show that nut straight and let him see it. He might just fold 2 pair or a busted low, not realizing he backed into the flush.

In holdem, the counterfeited kicker hand is probably the most common example. Flop comes AK373. Just flip over AQ, and say "Ace Queen". Don't
say Aces up or anything that is an overt lie. Just draw attention to your queen. Sometimes people forget about the way the K saved their sorry ass A5off suit. After all, they are stupid enough to play that hand, so clearly they could be stupid enough to miread the board at the end. If you don't fastroll, he flips A5 FACE UP and the dealer will (probably) save him from himself.

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[ALL1N]

He didn't address the most important situation of all: when they announce a good hand you can't beat - i.e the angle-shooting situation. Dunno why.

[Pov]

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He didn't address the most important situation of all: when they announce a good hand you can't beat - i.e the angle-shooting situation. Dunno why.

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Actually he does. In this case he would wait to see the hand. Fastrolling as described in the article refers to when he turns over his, not when he mucks.

[ALL1N]

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He didn't address the most important situation of all: when they announce a good hand you can't beat - i.e the angle-shooting situation. Dunno why.

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Actually he does. In this case he would wait to see the hand. Fastrolling as described in the article refers to when he turns over his, not when he mucks.

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Where exactly, Pov?

[Pov]

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He didn't address the most important situation of all: when they announce a good hand you can't beat - i.e the angle-shooting situation. Dunno why.

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Actually he does. In this case he would wait to see the hand. Fastrolling as described in the article refers to when he turns over his, not when he mucks.

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Where exactly, Pov?

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He outlines the situations where fastrolling is appropriate and villain announcing a better hand than hero's is not one of them. Since it does not meet the criteria, this would not be a fastrolling situation.

I suppose you could argue that technically he does not claim the article contains a comprehensive list of situations where fastrolling is appropriate, but I believe the angle-shot the poster I replied to was referring to would be related to mucking rather than rolling, which is offtopic for the article.

[ALL1N]

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He outlines the situations where fastrolling is appropriate and villain announcing a better hand than hero's is not one of them.

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Yeah, and this is my criticism of the article.