Calling with crap because the price is right.

crystalallen · #1 09-25-2007, 03:25 PM

I was advised to post this question here in STT instead of the Beginner's forum where I had posted it.

All of the examples are from 6 person SNGs. The top two get paid.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12230258

DevinLake · #2 09-25-2007, 03:34 PM

Hand 1: This is terrible. 63o out of position is not a hand you should be playing. Just fold it preflop.

Then on the turn you call knowing he has a J? Where you getting the 8-1 price u needed to draw to your 5 outs? The answer is no, and you weren't getting the implied odds either.

Hand 2: is fine.

Hand 3: I'd fold. You aren't closing the action and aren't guaranteed a showdown with a very weak hand.

vers · #3 09-25-2007, 04:03 PM

hand 1 - you got there but you shouldn't have. Fold pre.

hand 2 - I do the same.

hand 3 - too weak, I fold too.

crystalallen · #4 09-25-2007, 05:00 PM

Thank you both. These are pretty bad huh?

Surprisingly, I win quite a few of these SNG at my level. (2 and 5 - 6 person) Although I have to say, I won a lot more before I started to try to learn and practice using pot odds.

Here's a hand that just happened. Basically I had already decided to put the big blind all in or call his all in with my 66 but I didn't want to go all in with the two behind me. Right move? Wrong? Do pot odds have anything to do with this?

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Hero (t3215)
Button (t2590)
SB (t1825)
BB (t730)
UTG (t640)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6[[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]], 6[[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]].
[color=Gray]1 fold, [color=Red]Hero raises to t300, [color=Gray]2 folds, [color=Red]BB raises to t500, [color=Red]Hero raises to t1550, BB calls t230 (All-In).

Flop: (t2330) A[[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]], K[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], A[[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] [color=Blue](2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2330) 3[[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] [color=Blue](2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2330) K[[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] [color=Blue](2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2330

Results in white below: [color=White]
BB has Th Ts (two pair, aces and kings).
Hero has 6h 6d (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: BB wins t1510. Hero wins t820.

Scuba Chuck · #5 09-25-2007, 05:11 PM

that 66 hand is very -EV

pauliewalnuts · #6 09-25-2007, 06:27 PM

I think the 66 hand is fine. He only has 730 chips left. His minraise could be viewed as strength, but it could just as likely be the sign of a donk. If you just look at it like he went AI, you are getting better than 2.5-1, which is plenty IMO.

Yossarian147 · #7 09-26-2007, 02:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Although I have to say, I won a lot more before I started to try to learn and practice using pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a normal stage of learning. You learn a new concept and apply it wrong. Then after getting some experience you figure out when to apply it and magically you have become a better player. You'll look back at these hands in a couple months and go 'wtf was I thinking'.

BadBeatsCrewDerk · #8 09-26-2007, 03:05 AM

These are all really standard spots. Hand 1 just fold pre because you can't do much with 63o oop. Hand 2 is a super standard call with any two cards cause you have to call 280 into a 680 pot and it's not going to hurt you to lose it. Hand 3 is really, really bad. I bet you're thinking "yeah, let's try to knock this guy out" but it's not even the bubble and you have someone behind you so the whole 2:1 pot odds thing doesn't come into play here. The 66 hand is standard.

Also, you mention you overbet the pot to get people to stop drawing to flushes and they always call and hit. Don't get into this mode of thinking. You should bet enough to not give your opponent odds to call but if you constantly overbet you're never going to get anyone to come along when you do have the best chance of winning. Also if you overbet you will get into more spots where you are pot committed and can't throw your hand away when the flush hits when you have a strong read the other person has it.

IFoldPktOnes · #9 09-26-2007, 05:36 AM

There are too many players behind you on the 66 hand, fold preflop. The idea of isolating the shortstacks is fine but you need to be on the button or one off the button to make this play.

Here's some beginner advice to keep you out of trouble until you learn more:
1. Don't bluff in a SnG (except for semi-bluffs)
2. If you are unsure about whether to play a hand then just fold it preflop.
3. Play tighter when you are out of position.

crystalallen · #10 09-26-2007, 09:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There are too many players behind you on the 66 hand, fold preflop. The idea of isolating the shortstacks is fine but you need to be on the button or one off the button to make this play.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was in the later stages when everyone is just looking for a reason to fold. I decided to try to pick up the blinds (because in his book, Phil Gordon says Steal the blinds!) I've been trying to do that more and I liked my 66. I figured if I did it the BB might go all in so I decided that I would call. Instead he raised so I put him all in because What am I going to do after the flop, fold?

Thank you all for your help.