Niagara 10k: Turning TPGK into a bluff multiway for my TOURNAMENT LIFE

[Clayton]

We are now at 100/200/25, so level four I guess. I know most everyone's game at this point as we have been playing together for like 5 hours.

Relevant reads:

Villain 1: local canada player, incredibly loose passive preflop and stationy postflop. like most live players here, he undervalues his hands in accordance with the 2p2 mindset. Twice I've seen him openlimp and flatcall OOP with AK, so I'm uncertain how to interpret his raise here but the antes just kicked in and the general table texture is more gambly. When he raises, it is my estimation that he has high cards and big pairs, of which he follows through with TP or better like 99% of the time unless he has top set which I guess he'll check.

Villain 2: Probably the best player at the table that isn't me or Traheho (who joined 30 minutes prior, irrelevant factoid). He has a loose raising range preflop and valuebets strongly. He has gotten most of his chips by hitting big hands and betting them very hard getting people to make crying calls with 1-pair ish hands, etc. I have however seen him get out of line by doing things like min-CR'ing the flop with 22 (no set) on an ace-high flop HU on the premise that he didnt think villain had the ace. He's also done a lot of minraising of CBets, and in general gets out of line more on the flop. I have never seen him get out of line on a later street.

Villain 3: Really weak player imo who is playing his cards entirely transparently. Has been tight and nitty, but in the couple of big pots he played he basically turned his hand face up and still put in a lot of money with the worst hand (ie getting CR'd on the turn on a AJT7 board and calling off a huge part of his stack with AK).

Me: My image is pretty lagtastic, I have won some decent pots but I have lost a few pots. One notable pot was where I called a RR oop with TT at 25/50, checkcalled the 872 flop, and then CR'd the Q turn big when he only bet 1/3 pot putting villain on AA/KK and trying to get him to fold. He calls tho, river is a king and it checks through, he has AA and people are like "zomg id have folded 2nd set there" so I run bad at choosing unknowns to turn an overpair into a bluff against. I've also made a couple of loose calldowns, played some decently big pots in position, shown some big hands, but my stigma as "the internet kid" has probably effected the entire table. It didnt help that a random CardPlayer reporter started covering me as if I was a pocketfives allstars. So I'm "the crazy internet kid" compared to the rest of the table.

Villain 1, the nit, has 15k
Villain 2, the "tournament pro" has 30k
Villain 3, weak player, has like 15k
Hero has like 9.5k to start.

So, onto the hand. My 20k starting stack is back down to 9.5k from 15k (and 9k before it, I'm fluctuating with style). Level is 100/200/25. Im in the BB with KJo no spade

Villain 1 (big ol' nit) makes it 650 in EMP. Villain 2 (sorta loosey tournament "pro") flatcalls in the hijack. Weak player calls OTB. Folds to me and I want to fold, but I throw in chips and call.

Flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (~3k or so in the pot).

I check, the big ol' nit checks, and the "tournament pro" bets 2k really quick. The weak player thinks 15 seconds and calls.

As you all can see, flatcalling sucks and folding is meh, and shoving is meh. Great predicament I've put myself into.

I shove in 7.2k on top for 9.2k total.

Aye?

Thoughts: I think big ol nit is never putting any money in now, and the tournament pro is betting a fairly wide range when checked to. Also the weak player OTB is definitely not calling 7k more on this flop imo. So, I'm basically playing my hand as a bluff against the tournament pro in the hopes to steal the 7k or so in the pot by risking my 9k.

However, with these live tournaments in general, I'm learning that there are more tournaments where you can "find a better spot" as stupid and cliche as that sounds. And throughout this hand I couldn't help but think how stupid of a situation I found myself in and why couldn't I just be a huge nit with my image and get someone to call off my stack with some crap.

Cliffnotes: Ive got a lot to learn in live tournaments. I also need to relearn how to apply my LAG style. Either that, or relearn nit.

[gobboboy]

Fold preflop, but you know that. Especially since it's not HU, especially since it's from a nit, especialy since he's probably not in late position.

This is not a bluff, even if you think it is.

[Clayton]

i mean, sometimes the tournament pro calls with a worse jack, but the way this table is going even with my image people are gonna tank with like AJ.

often i have the best hand, but i feel like i am rarely, rarely getting called by worse.

edit - to those saying shove is fine, can you please expound on whether or not it's worth it in these live fields? Because lately I have done thinking about the future live tournaments I will play, and the "wait for a better spot" thing really seems like something to consider.

It's really marginal, marginal enough to just fold and say I'll wait for a big hand with my image and get it in way good?

[Todd Terry]

I'd give the tournament pro credit for a stronger hand than you are. He's betting into 3 people on a drawy board, which I think means he thinks his hand is good (or he has a monster draw that he's willing to go with). Because the board is drawy, you're young and agressive, you don't have enough chips to hurt him, and the pot odds are very good, I think you're getting called here. The question is will you get looked up by the pro if he has QJ or JT, I think you probably will, your image is an advantage -- I'm assuming that's what Gobbo meant when he said this isn't a bluff.

You can write off the nit since he doesn't have an overpair (he would have bet), is highly unlikely to have JJ (since you have one and the pro may have one), so his only possible hand that you have to worry about is 99, which is too unlikely to affect your decision.

I think shoving is fine here, folding would not be terrible either.

Edit: #3 doesn't have you beat and probably won't call.

[ASPoker8]

I think players like the one descrived as "tournament pro" do stupid things like bet this flop as a complete bluff because the original raiser checked.

I wouldn't necessarily give him credit for understanding what type of hand strength he needs to bet this board 4 way or what types of hands his other 3 opponents have.

I fold preflop given your stack, player descriptions, and being OOP multiway.

Once we get here we have to shove but its not a happy shove.

[durrrr]

durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[fslexcduck]

how exactly is this a bluff even a little bit?

[Superfluous Man]

[ QUOTE ]
how exactly is this a bluff even a little bit?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because AJ and overpairs fold.























































not!

[yellowsub]

imo, if yer gonna play this hand this way on the flop, it is a clear fold preflop

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
imo, if yer gonna play this hand this way on the flop, it is a clear fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

well, obv. but it's not like he actually has a choice here.