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#42
08-25-2007, 05:42 AM
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Re: 10/20nl tough river decision.
[ QUOTE ]
lots of "good" players make these type of idiot calls on the turn with bare flush draws all the time. I'm not sure if Samo falls into this category and haven't really played him, just a general statement. I think a lot of winning regulars have plugged this type of leak at this point, but I still see some big winning players make these kind of bad turn calls at random times. I remember playing LuckyULSA HU and he called $9k turn bet in $11k pot with $25k behind and a bare flush draw (then got there on river, open shoved, got payed off by my 2 pair obv lolz) [/ QUOTE ] so why was his call wrong? he got paid, so he had implied, right? (/end samo logic) Seriously though, I do think it's important to call with bare flush draws occasionally; if you get to the river and have none or very few flush draws in your range, what do you plan to do when the flush draw hits? It's usually pretty easy for the aggressor to have a flush draw, but if you can't have the flush yourself the river will go bet-fold way too often. It's an important principle of a game theoretic approach that you should always have the nuts in your range for any possible line and board. Sometimes, that means you have to carry forward "bad" flush draws to keep your river range threatening. There are few things worse in NL then when your tough opponent knows you can't have a strong hand. 
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#43
08-25-2007, 08:18 AM
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Re: 10/20nl tough river decision.
i fold here most of the time pretty much for the reasons you have already stated. i dont see him doing that for value with enough worse hands and there are not many hands i can see him turning into a bluff like this but i can defintely see him calling with a pair + FD or even just a bare FD sometimes on the turn.
seeing the responses that might be too tight but right now i think it is the best play here
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#44
08-25-2007, 07:31 PM
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Re: 10/20nl tough river decision.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] lots of "good" players make these type of idiot calls on the turn with bare flush draws all the time. I'm not sure if Samo falls into this category and haven't really played him, just a general statement. I think a lot of winning regulars have plugged this type of leak at this point, but I still see some big winning players make these kind of bad turn calls at random times. I remember playing LuckyULSA HU and he called $9k turn bet in $11k pot with $25k behind and a bare flush draw (then got there on river, open shoved, got payed off by my 2 pair obv lolz) [/ QUOTE ] so why was his call wrong? he got paid, so he had implied, right? (/end samo logic) Seriously though, I do think it's important to call with bare flush draws occasionally; if you get to the river and have none or very few flush draws in your range, what do you plan to do when the flush draw hits? It's usually pretty easy for the aggressor to have a flush draw, but if you can't have the flush yourself the river will go bet-fold way too often. It's an important principle of a game theoretic approach that you should always have the nuts in your range for any possible line and board. Sometimes, that means you have to carry forward "bad" flush draws to keep your river range threatening. There are few things worse in NL then when your tough opponent knows you can't have a strong hand. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with the basic idea even OOP, but OOP on the turn with questionable implied, shallowish stacks, and a bare fd... heh. It sounds obvious but you'd be amazed how often I see this
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#45
08-25-2007, 08:24 PM
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Re: 10/20nl tough river decision.
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the basic idea even OOP, but OOP on the turn with questionable implied, shallowish stacks, and a bare fd... heh. It sounds obvious but you'd be amazed how often I see this [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I'm certainly not trying to defend the play in the specific hand you mentioned, and I agree people do it too often.
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