AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement

[h11]

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Both sites and Joe Norton state that he owns 100% of the firms. It was very easy for us to determine that. What is apparently difficult for us is - to believe it.

It's not really surprising that we might have doubts, because this is a privately owned firm, and private owners are not required to reveal very much about their affairs. I own a business as a sole proprietor, just as Mr Norton claims he owns these gambling firms. If I sold someone an option to buy my firm, I'm not required to tell you about that, or to tell anyone else. That's just the way it is. Are you really amazed that I don't have to tell you about my business, or that you have no way of knowing if I have given someone a right to buy me out?

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But if that secrecy allowed you to cheat your customers and they find out about it, would you be able to continue your business and maintain that secrecy, or would you have to become more transparent in the future?

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How could they be more transparent about possible hidden ownership? If Mr Norton has in fact sold an option to someone giving that person the right to buy out his interest in AP he can tell us the truth, or he can lie to us, and there is no way for us to know which is the case. We must either believe him, or not. There is nothing he can do to PROVE he is telling the truth about this. There is no device which can make the inside of his head so transparent that we can tell whether he is telling the truth or not. It is possible that he has secretly sold his interest to the Queen of England. As long as neither of them says it's true, we can't rule her out as the real owner.

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Well then that only leaves one possibility open, doesn't it? If they cannot prove the truth as far as ownership goes then there is no reason to ever trust them again and they have to go down(or at least only the ignorant and greedy continue to play there).

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I assume that any owner of an offshore poker site would be happy to cheat me out of my money, if that were to make him richer. But I also believe that in order to maximize their wealth, they need to earn trust of players. And to do that, they have to avoid cheating scandals. So I don't really care if a LARGE poker site is owned by John Gotti or Lee Jones. Both owners would have huge incentives to not cheat me, IMO. Because cheating stands an excellent chance of getting caught, and that would cost more in the long run than being honest. Now a rogue employee, who does not own the site, has different incentives, and I think that is what happened at AP. And I think AP has been stupidly managed, one sign of it being this scandal. But on the whole, I think owners, crooked or straight, will work to keep the places honest. Out of greed. With the rare exception such as this one, where someone doesn't know how to manage their company so as to protect the value of their investment. So I dont care who owns it. As long as they have the minimal intelligence needed to understand they should be honest.

[h11]

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Kind of a smokescreen though. Whether or not they contacted Gaming Associates or the KGC 'immediately' is not the point.

The first thing they should have done is call the police.

They still haven't.

That's all we need to know.

(Nice one, wisehand.)

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I bet they did call the cops. I think there is an excellent chance AJ Green is behind bars.

[Jan]

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Unfortunately, knowledge of this scandal isn't exactly reaching as much of the poker community as we had hoped.

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Nearly every day of the fall poker classic at canterbury, I somehow ended up talking about AP at the tables -- usually by other people bringing it up. I think it's a sort of underground movement that will gradually spread its way across the entire poker playing community.

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It's too juicy of a story not to spread. A buddy of mine who's firmly convinced that he can't profit from horrible players (only decent ones) knew about it, and he barely plays online. Also a ton of my programming nerd friends know about it just from digg.

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I read 2+2 at least 3 or 4 times a week, and I didn't find out about it until just this week, so it's not really getting out there. I just happened to visit the Kill Phil forum which I haven't looked at in months and months and noticed a very small thread that mentioned it, otherwise I still wouldn't know anything about it as I never read the BBV forum. My son plays poker online...he didn't hear about it. His friends play poker online...they didn't hear about it. All my family and friends know I play online, if they heard something about, they would have mentioned it.

Another gambling forum I visit occasionally has one specifically about online casinos...no mention of it.

[zen_rounder]

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Is anyone else amused by the overabundance of references to how much of a [censored] Jenny Woo is in articles by her own employer?

I think its also hilarious how obviously hot she thinks she is. She's a really bad boob job past being just an average asian chick. Get over yourself Jenny.

[/ QUOTE ]so what id [censored] her for sure [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[pygmyhipo]

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Call me old school, but when I plop down my cash, I at least like to know who I plopped it to.

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Who's to trust at Absoulute Poker, whatever that even is anymore.

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How is this situation any different from Stars or Full Tilt? These are both privately owned and good luck finding any public document naming the true owners and their percentage interest.

-pyg

[pygmyhipo]

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I suspect the statement "to access 3rd party computers" is in response to hard evidence that the home computer of Scott Tom was involved or perhaps they are referring to their host computers as a 3rd party computer from the point of view of the guilty party.

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Right. I think AP's intent with the wording of their statement was:
1st party = Absolute
2nd party = The Cheater
3rd party = Scott Tom, whose home IP address was implicated, and whom AP wants to leave blameless for some reason

[zen_rounder]

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“Upon learning of the incident, AP immediately contacted Gaming Associates,

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"immediately" = "about a month later" ???

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2. AP has fully corrected the problem that allowed its system to be unfairly manipulated and is working to enhance its existing safeguards.

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Last I check, they didn't fire those in charge of security who CLEARLY were asleep at the wheel. If they weren't incompetant and not doing their jobs, then they knew about it and were covering it up. One way or another, those in charge of security at AP *MUST* be fired or their statements regarding how "dedicated" they are to security have no credibility.

[/ QUOTE ]security team finds evidence of cheatin g account, one of them says to the other this is seriouse lets go straight to to the top with this, OOOOPS its the owner of the company whos cheating. what are thy supposed to do when the boss tells them to cover it up?? adanthar has inside sources and people leaking stuff to him, i suspect its prob these people. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[LuckyMux]

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I read 2+2 at least 3 or 4 times a week, and I didn't find out about it until just this week, so it's not really getting out there. I just happened to visit the Kill Phil forum which I haven't looked at in months and months and noticed a very small thread that mentioned it, otherwise I still wouldn't know anything about it as I never read the BBV forum. My son plays poker online...he didn't hear about it. His friends play poker online...they didn't hear about it. All my family and friends know I play online, if they heard something about, they would have mentioned it.

Another gambling forum I visit occasionally has one specifically about online casinos...no mention of it.

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Then tell them - and well done for informing your friends and family too. This is how awareness spreads.

Very good point about you stumbling across this in BBV tho. What do you think, mods? Bump the biggest story in online poker - and the source of extreme kudos to 2+2 - to a more prominent position?

[e_phemeral]

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I read 2+2 at least 3 or 4 times a week, and I didn't find out about it until just this week, so it's not really getting out there. I just happened to visit the Kill Phil forum which I haven't looked at in months and months and noticed a very small thread that mentioned it, otherwise I still wouldn't know anything about it as I never read the BBV forum. My son plays poker online...he didn't hear about it. His friends play poker online...they didn't hear about it. All my family and friends know I play online, if they heard something about, they would have mentioned it.

Another gambling forum I visit occasionally has one specifically about online casinos...no mention of it.

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Then tell them - and well done for informing your friends and family too. This is how awareness spreads.

Very good point about you stumbling across this in BBV tho. What do you think, mods? Bump the biggest story in online poker - and the source of extreme kudos to 2+2 - to a more prominent position?

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I agree. This is the biggest story re online poker that I've come across since I started playing. Why isn't this story cross posted on every single forum on this website? Is 2+2 trying to minimize it? The story has to get out to as many people as possible.

[zen_rounder]

usa based/owned online poker sites need to be regulated to stay alive imo. in england you have stan james william hill ladbrokes ect all publicly listed companies. the us government has caused all this intentionally or otherwise by forcing sites to go elswhere. this story will either cure it or damage it indefinatley.