TT and JJ facing 3bets cold

tom10167 · #1 02-15-2007, 06:08 AM

What's everyone do here? I used to just call a lot and see if the raiser was willing to cap but lately I've just been folding unless I know the raisers(especially the 3bettor) to be an idiot.

Nick C · #2 02-15-2007, 09:06 AM

At full tables when the raises came from EP/MP, my default was to fold.

Does this situation really come up for you much at short tables? I guess if the raise and 3-bet came from the first two positions and the players in question were not LAGs I would think about dumping it. But I don't know what's best.

Get any closer to steal territory, though, and I don't think I would let it go, unless I knew the 3-bettor to be a total rock or a very passive preflop player.

Scary_Tiger · #3 02-15-2007, 09:15 AM

capcapcapcapcapcapcapcacpacap

BigBadBabar · #4 02-15-2007, 09:25 AM

in 6max? i cap unless the guy is a total rock.

johnnyrocket · #5 02-15-2007, 10:39 AM

in 6 max almost always cap, if its 3 bet cold to you at a full table from early players the +EV play would be to fold. It also depends on how strong you are postflop as well

johnnyrocket · #6 02-15-2007, 10:39 AM

if you can read all opponents then def cap, if you have trouble when overcards hit then maybe folding could be a better option.

Araklion · #7 02-15-2007, 01:49 PM

6max JJ is always a cap for me.
TT depends. I cap in position. In the blinds it depends on the players who raised/3-bet.
If they ( especially the initial raiser when the player who 3-bets isn't a donkey ) are loose it's certainly a cap from the SB. I might sometimes just call in the BB depending on the postflop tendencies of the other players. If they are tight however, I like to fold it out of position.

TonyDanza · #8 02-15-2007, 06:54 PM

My standard was to just call, have a 3 or 4 way pot, have the board be an ace, fold the flop, watch my T or J hit on the turn, rationalize it, watch some monkey win with 99 UI and move on.

I think capping is best with JJ. TT is either a cap or a fold depending on who the 3 better is. If he's not a rock, I would cap.

jstill · #9 02-15-2007, 07:12 PM

yeah it depends on the opponents and positions a bit but if the 3bettor has a somewhat normal 6max 3betting range (ie wouldnt just call with AQo 99+) its a cap for me.

make that a CO raise, Button 3bet or CO or button raise and sb 3bet its a very easy cap with either.

If the original raiser has a wide opening range and a very small capping range ie QQ+ not even AKo or AQs usually i ll just call to get that extra info though.

TomBrooks · #10 02-16-2007, 12:22 AM

JJ is a better hand than AKo. TT is not. TT is not a capping hand and folding is not bad. In position is better than OOP. CC from the blinds is an option, especially with TT.

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed)
Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG caps, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Button raises, Hero folds, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Button calls $2.50 (All-In), BB calls.

River: (14.91 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, UTG bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 15.91 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has Qh Qd (one pair, queens).
Button has Ac Kd (high card, ace).
Outcome: UTG wins 15.91 BB. 

Remember if you don't cap it will often getted capped anyway. It might be useful to see who, if anyone, does that. I found a couple of hands where I make the mistake of capping with TT instead of letting QQ or AA cap it, but they're Cryptologic and there is no convertor that works for them and I don't feel like doing them manually.