NL Bots on Full Tilt

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
the stats are not identical. their VPIP ranges from 13.64 to 14.15. this may not seem like much to many, but for an fr nit, this is huge, and there is no way the range would not be tighter over 100,000 hands if the accounts were being run by the same bot program.

ftp investigated these accounts for a month. does no one here even concede the possibility that ftp may have more information exonerating the accused than what so far has been made available here?

[/ QUOTE ]

As to your first point, there are 2 explanations. First, even over 100k hands, hand quality distribution would not be even. I haven't run the numbers, but from my experience this is a very tight grouping, not a loose one. Can someone do a monte carlo sim or a regression analysis to show this? And second, in was clearly stated in the very first post of this thread that the bot owner will take manual control from time to time, and this also is enough to explain the discrepancies.

As to your second point, yeah I'm open to the possibility we are wrong. But FTP needs to show up and do some explaining, because they are looking bad right now.

[NoahSD]

FTPDoug/Sean. Please respond, and do so in a new thread.

[1p0kerboy]

Are any of the bots playing right now?

[pokerrn72]

i will post hand histories later showing me going to war against these alleged bots, which i think could be interesting and illuminating as well. i'm fairly sure i recall a hand against full-tilting where he pushed all-in with a pair of sixes on a 2-3-4 flop when i had rr pf with a-a. he hit the 5 on the turn or river.

i would like the truth as much as anyone--i just think the lynch mob mentality here is a little repulsive.

i played against these guys quite a bit so i figured i might be able to add value to this thread, my low post count notwithstanding.

[Ron Burgundy]

yea, drunkenboxer is playing 1/2 NL

[fatpipe]

0_Drunkenboxer is 4-Tabling NL200 right now

[MasterLJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the stats are not identical. their VPIP ranges from 13.64 to 14.15. this may not seem like much to many, but for an fr nit, this is huge, and there is no way the range would not be tighter over 100,000 hands if the accounts were being run by the same bot program.

ftp investigated these accounts for a month. does no one here even concede the possibility that ftp may have more information exonerating the accused than what so far has been made available here?

[/ QUOTE ]

As to your first point, there are 2 explanations. First, even over 100k hands, hand quality distribution would not be even. I haven't run the numbers, but from my experience this is a very tight grouping, not a loose one. Can someone do a monte carlo sim or a regression analysis to show this? And second, in was clearly stated in the very first post of this thread that the bot owner will take manual control from time to time, and this also is enough to explain the discrepancies.

As to your second point, yeah I'm open to the possibility we are wrong. But FTP needs to show up and do some explaining, because they are looking bad right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I developed one a couple years ago. You need 1000 samples of each hand "type" to start seeing some decent convergence (but not strong). That's 169k hands if you look at it as AKs vs AKos, 87s and 87os, etc etc etc.

After 100k hands it is absolutely possible the VPIP could be slightly different.

I've always been curious as to how you can get your computer to auto-input information (ala clicking the mouse etc). I know you can wrap DirectInput (A MASSIVE undertaking), but that should be very easy to detect.

[MicroBob]

Guys - I'm guessing it's going to be a few days before Doug/Sean respond to this.

Yes, it would be nice if they would just jump in here and say, "we're addressing this issue and will get back to you when we can."
But obviously they haven't done that.

On issues like this it seems their strategy is to get their ducks in a row (concoct the same old P.R. hooey-balloey) before addressing the issue that possibly neither one of them had been working on at all previously.


I too would like them to respond. I just know from past experience in other FT-thread-fiasco-type-situations that it just isn't going to happen right-away because that's their strategy.

[daca]

[ QUOTE ]
just got stacked by him


Full Tilt Poker Game #2387674394: Table Apache Hills - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:42:06 ET - 2007/05/09
Seat 1: 0_Drunkenboxer ($398.65)
Seat 2: Dopeey11 ($73.70)
Seat 3: ThoughtyouhadKK ($34)
Seat 4: Rnuss24 ($229.25)
Seat 5: HERO ($256.35)
Seat 6: ddongi ($177.85)
Seat 7: Marlbro420 ($237.35), is sitting out
Seat 8: Rocky of Poker ($280.80)
Rnuss24 posts the small blind of $1
HERO posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Qd Jc]
ddongi folds
Rocky of Poker folds
0_Drunkenboxer raises to $8
Dopeey11 folds
ThoughtyouhadKK folds
Rnuss24 folds
HERO calls $6
*** FLOP *** [Js 8s Jh]
HERO checks
0_Drunkenboxer bets $12
HERO raises to $35
0_Drunkenboxer has 15 seconds left to act
0_Drunkenboxer raises to $58
Melo44 adds $200
HERO raises to $248.35, and is all in
0_Drunkenboxer calls $190.35
HERO shows [Qd Jc]
0_Drunkenboxer shows [As Jd]
*** TURN *** [Js 8s Jh] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [Js 8s Jh 2c] [Kc]
HERO shows three of a kind, Jacks
0_Drunkenboxer shows three of a kind, Jacks
0_Drunkenboxer wins the pot ($510.70) with three of a kind, Jacks
HERO is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $513.70 | Rake $3
Board: [Js 8s Jh 2c Kc]
Seat 1: 0_Drunkenboxer showed [As Jd] and won ($510.70) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 2: Dopeey11 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: ThoughtyouhadKK (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Rnuss24 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: HERO (big blind) showed [Qd Jc] and lost with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 6: ddongi didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Marlbro420 is sitting out
Seat 8: Rocky of Poker didn't bet (folded)



0_Drunkenboxer: guess playin back at me doesnt work all the time


[/ QUOTE ]

Call flop 3-bet and fold most turns.

Oh, and kill the bots ofcourse.

[JOEL_]

If this guy is really using bots,I hope he gets whats coming to him, but

Two guys sitting together playing on different accounts,one teaching another how to play,confering and making basically the same moves could easily bring the same stats as OP has provided.Is this cheating?Is it against the terms and conditions?I mean I don't know,I am just asking.I am sure this is going on all over the place.

ok problem here 4 accounts are involved. 4 friends?? I know this stinks,but the guy has already said tonight that he has been investigated by ftp.Might not be bot use after all,but simply one guy making all the decisions.Question is if this is the case are they breaking rules?I don't think I have read anywhere that it is against the rules to confer on a hand.