|
|
#111
11-10-2007, 06:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The question is to what degree do these property rights give us total dominion of our property, under what conditions may this be taken away, and so forth. [/ QUOTE ] This is what I dont get. If I dont have a right to my property what gives the government a right to my property? Just because people cant think of better ways to help poor people? The idea that we need a government to help the poor is one of most persistant myths we perpetuate as a society, to the detriment of the poor. [/ QUOTE ] Again, rights are simply things that society has agreed you deserve or have a claim to. [/ QUOTE ] Society doesn't get to legitimately make those decisions for you. This is just might makes right (part XXXIV). [ QUOTE ] If you don't think the government is helpful for solving certain problems of social significance, and if you had a bunch of people who agreed, you could go without one and see how it went. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, you can't. If you tried, it would probably end up looking like this: 
|
|
#112
11-10-2007, 06:38 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
Society doesn't get to legitimately make those decisions for you. This is just might makes right (part XXXIV). [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Actually, you can't. If you tried, it would probably end up looking like this: [/ QUOTE ] So what you're saying is that my completely factual statement is true, but that you don't want it to be true? Reality may lack moral legitimacy, but that makes it no less real. We try to change reality, and in all likelihood the steps you and I would take, at this point, would be quite similar. You can continue to believe that your moral conception of the world means jack [censored], but it doesn't.
|
|
#113
11-10-2007, 06:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Society doesn't get to legitimately make those decisions for you. This is just might makes right (part XXXIV). [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Actually, you can't. If you tried, it would probably end up looking like this: [/ QUOTE ] So what you're saying is that my completely factual statement is true, but that you don't want it to be true? [/ QUOTE ] No. The fact that "Society" decides these things and *asserts* that they are "my rights" does not make it so.
|
|
#114
11-10-2007, 06:45 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
You can continue to believe that your moral conception of the world means jack [censored], but it doesn't. [/ QUOTE ] You can continue to believe that might makes right.
|
|
#115
11-10-2007, 07:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You can continue to believe that your moral conception of the world means jack [censored], but it doesn't. [/ QUOTE ] You can continue to believe that might makes right. [/ QUOTE ] I sincerely do not understand why you keep repeating this. Morality is an anthropological artifact, a label for evolved group norms. It doesn't have meaning apart from human society. And, historically, moral codes have always been birthed and defined according to the behaviors that society enforced through violent coercion. In other words, might always HAS made "right." So what the hell are you talking about?
|
|
#116
11-10-2007, 10:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You can continue to believe that your moral conception of the world means jack [censored], but it doesn't. [/ QUOTE ] You can continue to believe that might makes right. [/ QUOTE ] This is so frustrating. What is the importance of "right". What defines "right". Why should I even care what you think is "right". Answer these questions, because I've already explained quite clearly what I mean when I say "rights" and I believe it is a definition that at least fits the real world pretty well. You can continue to complain that life doesn't fit your particular ideal, but nothing will ever come about until you FORCE it to. FORCE.
|
|
#117
11-10-2007, 11:48 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
Morality is an anthropological artifact, a label for evolved group norms. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It doesn't have meaning apart from human society. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And, historically, moral codes have always been birthed and defined according to the behaviors that society enforced through violent coercion. [/ QUOTE ] Prove all of those assertions or just admit that they are only axioms in the non-theistic philosophy that you adhere to.
|
|
#118
11-11-2007, 01:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You can continue to believe that your moral conception of the world means jack [censored], but it doesn't. [/ QUOTE ] You can continue to believe that might makes right. [/ QUOTE ] This is so frustrating. What is the importance of "right". What defines "right". Why should I even care what you think is "right". Answer these questions, because I've already explained quite clearly what I mean when I say "rights" and I believe it is a definition that at least fits the real world pretty well. You can continue to complain that life doesn't fit your particular ideal, but nothing will ever come about until you FORCE it to. FORCE. [/ QUOTE ] The world runs on morality. Most people pay their taxes because they think it's good to do so. Either that or fear but the guns can only intimidate so many without the underlying false morality they are nothing. Why do you think the government comes up with all this bulls**t about the poor and the environment and blah blah blah if they could just say we've got nukes give us your cash now. Convincing people that taxation is evil is the best thing anyone can do for the world.
|
|
#119
11-11-2007, 08:20 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
Convincing people that taxation is evil is the best thing anyone can do for the world. [/ QUOTE ] I give up... So clearly missing the point its unbelievable.
|
|
#120
11-11-2007, 08:37 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Chomsky on Anarchism (sidenote; education)
[ QUOTE ]
Your correct. Most people also favour some form of egalitarian reform, universal healthcare, etc. but thanks to private powers manipulation of government and the nature of the constitution the democratic opinion of the majority is inept without major pubblic stuggle. [/ QUOTE ] Who do you think wins this struggle when you give all the guns to one institution in society? Those people with the money and resources to manipulate the political process and the media. So you guys can continue to claim that we need government to do this or that but understand that the ultimate consequence is that government is going to get controlled by those with money. Its irrational to claim we need government and then complain when your social programs get co-opted by interests that care nothing about the poor and only care about their monopolistic control of society. Its the natural consequence of the structure you want for society. But mabey you could elaborate on exactly which point I missed.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
