Opening Up Your Eyes and Your Game (very long)

[Ness]

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the whole catch behind all this is WHY OP is not as good a player as the people he talked to. I mean, think about: he now knows all of these ideas so why can't he use them as well as they can? the answer is HAND READING. and you can't really teach that just by making a 'deep' post on a message board. and that's why there is no harm is sharing strategic info on a forum. even if i talked strategy with one person all day and all night, when i played against them i would still feel that it is possible to have an advantage because of the way I mix up my play to be unreadable and the way i can read their play.

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Yeah, I sort of skimmed through this thread, but I am surprised you were the first one to mention this.

The reason players like Samoleus and Building Sweaters are successful with their style is becuase they are also excellent hand readers.

From my personal experience, I have found the only way to improve on hand reading skills is repetition.

Not only playing many hands (as some of you know i probably play less than half the hands many of you do), but by playing close attention when you are not in the action, attempting to put those involved in the pot on a range of hands.



regards,

ness

[Marlow]

There's a great concept in educational psychology/philosophy that is directly related to this issue. It is called the "zone of proximal development." Basically, the "zone" is the mental place that is outside of a person's expertise, but close enough that it's within his or her grasp. What's important to note here is that if a player isn't ready (or in this "zone"), then they won't be able to learn the skill. It's just too far beyond what they are already capable of. However, if a person is ready, they can obtain the new skills with good instruction and lots of practice.

In this case, what does it mean to be "ready"? Well, it means being able to read hands really well. It means having confidence in your game. It means understanding and being able to psychologically withstand higher varience. If you can't do these things and lots more, AJP's advice is nice to read, but not applicable to you right now (of course, once these prerequisites are met, it's a different story). In fact, I will go so far to say that if people want to learn to reraise more PF, as well as fire more 2nd barrels, it will be crucial that you learn the better post-flop play before you start firing away on the flop. The learning sequence here is really important. Making better bets PF is predicated on knowing how to handle yourself after the flop.

Paying attention to the order in which you address your leaks is just as important as determining what they are. Simply put, this will drastically shorten your learning curve (and be much easier on your BR).

Basically my point here is that people here will be able to assimilate these "high-limit" skills into their arsenal only if they are ready. Therefore this information will be useless for some, and a major "ah ha" for others. And the bottom line is that the individual has no control over their present state of readiness. This is simply a basic cognitive function that we all share.

Here's some more info if you're interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of...al_Development

Edit: Looks like Mason and others have basically identified these concepts as well. But it never hurts to have a formal theory there to guide and formalize your thinking and memory.

[T-God]

VN Marlow

[NapoleonDolemite]

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Ugh...why post this? AJ if you have such a firm grasp on the game, as it seems you do from this post...why post it for free for anyone to read? I know i sound selfish, but really!

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seems to be consistent with EVERY OTHER POST ON 2+2. i admit this was better than most, but this is a forum where everybody collaborates to become better. don't worry too much, the # of people that will read this post is almost certainly <1% of your opponents lifetime.

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i disagree. less than 1 %? Nearly every 3/6 table i look at has 1 or 2 regulars, half of whom I KNOW read this forum. I love 2+2...but this specific advice...Kratzer, Fenix..this only hurts us.

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Go away.



Great post, I will definitely be looking to use the second barrel more often, as it is a play I rarely use now.

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In all fairness to the original post (which was very good), this advice doesn't "hurt us". He is basically saying: make sure you are very comfortably rolled, re-raise more pre-flop, and fire second barrels.

If you notice that your opponents suddenly start firing second barrels and re-raising more frequently pre-flop, well, there is a solution to that, just like there is to ANY style of play. Figure out what it is (and don't tell anybody).

[Jamougha]

Oh cheers mason, telling a bunch of 400NL'ers to move into my game and start 3-betting and firing second barrels. Just what I need. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Time to open up that 4-betting range...

[AJFenix]

Gregg let me know that the VPIP numbers I got from him were only for 5 and 6 handed, not factoring in any HU/3/4handed that those players have played. The biggest winner in the 10/20 game on party is running at 25/21 over 200k+ hands. Either way, it isn't really important and is more of a small side note for the curious than a main point of this discussion, but I figured I should specify since I brought it up.

[BlackRain]

Posts like this really underline why 2+2 is such a great forum. nh AJ.

[Cesaro]

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Wow.

You're acting like he released some huge poker secrets.

Though the concepts he talks about are solid, good advice, they're very basic advice.

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i agree, this is basic information that every solid 5/10 regular and up knows and I used to see it a decent amount at 3/6 as well. that being said though, they are still crucial concepts that need to be grasped and UNDERSTOOD by lower and middle players.

I dont think people have to worry about advice like this "ruining" the games. Casino owners worried that card counting would ruin black jack games back in the day too. All the new information did though was psych people up to convince themselves that they knew how to play, causing them to play more and thus, lose more money.

In the end, the only players who will benefit are the ones who really take concepts like these to heart and actively try to properly incorporate them into their games. These players have the drive to get good anyway, regardless of whether they saw AJ's post.

well done sir

[Rotating Rabbit]

Well said AJ

[gergery]

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Ugh...why post this? AJ if you have such a firm grasp on the game, as it seems you do from this post...why post it for free for anyone to read? I know i sound selfish, but really!

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No offense to AJ who laid out some nice thoughts, but if my opponents are the kind of players who will get vast improvement from reading about re-raising light and firing 2 barrels, then those are the kind of opponents i want at my table.

the trick is not in knowing about it -- the trick is in implementing it.

-g