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#81
09-03-2007, 04:54 AM
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Re: fun times with POS ratholers
[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you guys just start complaining about having to play against good players? You don't seem to hate short stacks so much as the quality of players operating them. You use shortstacking/ratholing as a cop out to vent your frustration. Anyways, showing emotions about people who rathole (which is not such a bad thing because it removes a good player from your table for 30+ minutes) conveys a lack of mental wherewithal to adjust and beat such players. Also, some may argue that larger max or uncapped buyins, etc are unfair because they expose weak players to going broke so quickly. Not to mention that shortstacking can create a good environment to play in with lots of allins and gambling. There are so many different viewpoints and to vigorously bash shortstacking/ratholing just makes that person look intellectually weak. Feel free to keep crying while the proficient shortstackers continue to cut into your profits. [/ QUOTE ] I don't "hate" or "viscously verbally attack" or even quibble over the ethics of shortstacking itself. The only problem I really have with it is the inherent ratholing. It takes money off the table (obviously), and really annoys the fish. And yes, the good player leaves the table for a short period, but he's at every other table I'm playing at anyway. 
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#82
09-03-2007, 09:04 AM
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Re: fun times with POS ratholers
[ QUOTE ]
I'm also putting the # of people who start shortstacking because of this thread and pm me about it at like 5. [/ QUOTE ] I've kinda wondered about how -$EV these threads are. If you hate playing with shortstackers, it's probably not a great idea to make threads stating or at least implying that shortstacking is profitable.
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#83
09-03-2007, 09:53 AM
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Re: fun times with POS ratholers
[x] started shortstacking because of this thread
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#84
09-03-2007, 11:20 AM
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Re: fun times with POS ratholers
What about ratholers who suck arse and get lucky?
Also, I just sat at a FR table on party and 7 people had the minimum buy in. WTF is that?
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#85
09-03-2007, 11:53 AM
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Re: fun times with POS ratholers
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm also putting the # of people who start shortstacking because of this thread and pm me about it at like 5. [/ QUOTE ] I've kinda wondered about how -$EV these threads are. If you hate playing with shortstackers, it's probably not a great idea to make threads stating or at least implying that shortstacking is profitable. [/ QUOTE ]obv, but the people are fking idiots.
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#86
09-03-2007, 12:30 PM
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Re: fun times with POS ratholers
[ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] mdma [/ QUOTE ] wow seriously yea. curtains, one of the biggest annoyances i have with ratholers is that they exploit a basic flaw in the game and still want to remain a part of a community (2p2) that despises them.
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#87
09-03-2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: fun times with POS ratholers
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] mdma [/ QUOTE ] wow seriously yea. curtains, one of the biggest annoyances i have with ratholers is that they exploit a basic flaw in the game and still want to remain a part of a community (2p2) that despises them. [/ QUOTE ] Wah Wah Wah. My online friends don't like me anymore cause I hit n run. Could this be anymore ghey?
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#90
09-03-2007, 12:55 PM
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Re: fun times with POS ratholers
[ QUOTE ]
I've kinda wondered about how -$EV these threads are. If you hate playing with shortstackers, it's probably not a great idea to make threads stating or at least implying that shortstacking is profitable. [/ QUOTE ]Okay, I'll admit something here. I've tried shortstacking in the past (~60k hands), and was coached by some great high-stakes shortstackers. Here's what I learned: -If you play perfectly, your potential winrate is ~1/4th what it is full-stacking -400nl shortstacked (essentially 80NL) is far far far far more swingy than 100NL full-stacked. You can go on 40-50 buyin downswings while playing perfectly. -After people get stats on you, or realize you're not some random donk and adjust, you're going to lose unless you have a very well thought out strategy. Dataminers adjust after the first day. -It's not as easy as it sounds. If your VPIP is below 15 you suck as a sser and you're probably losing. You have to pay the blinds just like everyone else, and you don't get dealt aces often enough. I honestly believe about 95% of people who try shortstacking give it up after losing money. You may think that you'll be able to play 4 times as many tables shortstacking, but you won't. A strategy for a 10bb stack is a lot different than for a 20bb stack, which is a lot different than a 30bb stack. They require different betsizing, etc. Keeping track of all this information is not easy. You're going to end up essentially playing like 3 different kinds of games. -But most importantly from a selfish perspective, you don't learn how to play poker while ssing, and once you get to the high stakes, and you bust, then double up at a table, you can't sit back down for half an hour and there aren't any other tables for you to sit at. This is why you see Imsakidd at 400NL a lot, even though he plays much higher. -Also, it RUINS THE [censored] GAMES. Even a bad shortstacker ruins the games more than a good full-stacker. If you're at a table with 5 bad shortstackers, and you know how to play against them, they will lose, but probably so will you. The rake will eat you all. People who say shortstacking is morally equivalent to checkraising absolutely positively beyond a shadow of a doubt do not understand the fundamental concepts behind shortstacking.
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