Harrah's Makes Good Floor Decision?

[psandman]

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And Add to that the following: one does not necessarily have to hold on to ones cards to protect them (though that is ceratinly safest) he could have protected his hand by immediately objecting when the dealer grabbed them

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Yeah, the player can do a bunch of things to keep from getting hosed. He could also not come to your casino, but those are not the type of solutions that IMHO we need.

I mean, sandman, you seem like a pretty smart guy, but you definitely implied the the OP was a cheater when he shared a story about a dealer making a mistake. I guess RR would have to pull you out of the box for that one.

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I certainly wouldn't have said that in the box. And if I was present at the time it happened I would have a better idea if Op was intentionally taking a shot or just screwed up, but though I find it unlikely that he was intentionally taking a shot this time my actual objection to the floor's decision was that it invited players to take this shot in the future.

[amead]

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Yes, it seriously is that easy. I hear players at the card room complain about how their hand got killed unfairly. 100% of these complaints are from inexperienced live players. There's a reason we never get posts saying, "So I was playing 40/80 and had my cards laying unprotected in front of me and the stupid dealer killed them! What an idiot!" People who have been playing poker for a while understand what RR has been trying to explain in this thread.

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Nobody disputes the fact that novices release their cards too quickly. They should protect their hands, and they probably will after they get burned. Or perhaps they'll have an experience similar to the OP and decide that if they can't trust their cards to play and pots to be awarded fairly without the ever-looming threat of dealer negligence, they'll just stick to playing online.

I'd think anyone who frequents this forum would be in favor of novice players joining their local games.

Again, protecting cards = good. Blaming someone who was wrongly cheated out of a pot by a major dealer mistake for not assuming they'd get screwed sooner or later is bad.

[Unregistered]

So then what's the deal with televised poker when the players are all in and the dealer grabs the cards and arranges them on the table?

Are all of you advocating that, should I ever find myself in that position, I should raise a ruckus about wanting to keep my cards in my grubby little hands?

[RR]

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So then what's the deal with televised poker when the players are all in and the dealer grabs the cards and arranges them on the table?

Are all of you advocating that, should I ever find myself in that position, I should raise a ruckus about wanting to keep my cards in my grubby little hands?

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If you are on TV no, if you are in a tournament in your local card room yes. When they are are TV they pretty much don't do anything until the TD directs them to do it.

[psandman]

I know i said it in another post, but i want to be clear, I don't think in this case the OP was trying to cheat. (I used the term take a shot). What I said was that the floor's decision to give back the money invites this shot to be taken.

[amead]

Actually, you said take the shot again and again, implying that it was taken once already. Kidding, now I'm just being a ball busting jerk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

This has obviously moved into a serious threadjack into B&M attitudes, but it just struck a chord to see people do the generic tl;dr protect your cards dance, implying that it's his fault, when blame here is clear.

I think it's very much good for business to encourage new/inexperienced players, as they are the customers of tomorrow. The general attitude of protect your cards or else seems founded on acceptance of aggregious, preventable mistakes being "just how it goes" at B&M poker establishments.

Both dealers and B&M players can agree that fresh meat is good for business, and I'd suggest that diverting energies from scolding players for not protecting their cards to finding ways that new players could be more comfortable and feel safer playing live is +EV for all.

[Lord_Strife]

I didn't read most of the replies to this thread so excuse me if I'm repeating something or if my tangent has already been elaborated on. A dealer cannot muck a winning (tabled) hand, however, as we know based on the cards, you did not have the winning hand.

His hand was the last live hand and automatically can be awarded the pot because of that fact.

[GreedIsGood]

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I didn't read most of the replies to this thread so excuse me if I'm repeating something or if my tangent has already been elaborated on. A dealer cannot muck a winning (tabled) hand, however, as we know based on the cards, you did not have the winning hand.

His hand was the last live hand and automatically can be awarded the pot because of that fact.

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More to the point, if the dealer hadn't incorrectly mucked your hand, then there's little likelihood that the other player whould have mucked his winning hand. All that you really lost by the dealer's error was the right to see the hand that beat you. But it was never going to be your pot.

[juanez]

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You live in a place where the cards released more often than they should be because of this pulling them into the middle business.

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Gotta love CDOG. This is true I suppose. I still keep a death grip on my cards and rarely do dealers make me release them. I believe that the cards just need to be brought to the center of the table before the entire board and hands are brought together and not necessarily before the pot is pushed. I guess I need to check on this.....

[Mr Rick]

This is one bizarre scenario. Floor made a great call by making amends for a dealer mistake and not penalizing either innocent party. Sh*t happens. Its what people do about it that matters.

I will now always keep a hand on my exposed tabled cards just in case lightning strikes because it costs me nothing to do it. I am just grateful that this kind of stuff gets posted here - before it happens to me...