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#81
05-03-2007, 04:01 PM
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Re: Sowell Dreams Of Military Coup
[ QUOTE ]
Again, this is incorrect. Turkey is an Islamic society where people enjoy a significant amount of western freedom. [/ QUOTE ] Care to move there? 
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#82
05-03-2007, 04:02 PM
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Re: Sowell Dreams Of Military Coup
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There is no Islamic society that has any significant freedom as a westerner would define. [/ QUOTE ] Again, this is incorrect. Turkey is an Islamic society where people enjoy a significant amount of western freedom. [/ QUOTE ] Also, Morocco is another country with a significant Islamic population with a relatively free and open society.
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#83
05-03-2007, 04:05 PM
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Re: Sowell Dreams Of Military Coup
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Again, this is incorrect. Turkey is an Islamic society where people enjoy a significant amount of western freedom. [/ QUOTE ] Care to move there? [/ QUOTE ] No, and I also don't want to move to England, because my life is in America. I would, however, just as soon move to Turkey as most other places, provided I had a good reason to do so. Which isn't true of Iran, Syria, etc. Just admit you're wrong on this particular point, and you'll have more time to defend your other wrong positions in this thread.
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#84
05-03-2007, 04:14 PM
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Re: Cite One Restriction of Freedom from the Right....
[ QUOTE ] -- GDP increased as economy boomed fueled by this new internets thingy (so %GDP data will be misleading) [/ QUOTE ] It's misleading not to use GDP figures. I've explained why many times. Basically government revenues and spending as a percentage of GDP have stayed within fairly narrow ranges. It would be completely ridiculous to compare a government spending in 1970 with government spending in 2007 in absolute dollar terms. Government spending and revenues tend to rise as GDP rises and spending follows. It's easy to see why this is the case. Anyway in the case I cited of medicare vs. defense spending it doesn't matter whether it's measured in absolute dollar terms or percentage of GDP. [ QUOTE ] -- The biggest cuts to federal spending over the '90s were to defense spending as the Cold War ended in 1992 and all 3 Services Departments significantly reduced manpower and slashed procurement investment [/ QUOTE ] From 1992 to 2001 defense spending actually increased, discretionary spending on domestic programs actually decreased; discretions spending on international programs decreased; and the biggest decrease in spending was on Social Security. [ QUOTE ] Brings up one curious phenomenon... (and I don't like Clinton, btw)... Everything good the govt did in the '90s was the Congress's work, and everything bad was the President's. You want to credit the Congress for reduced spending as %GDP, which came in a big way thru defense cuts. Yet every right-winger I know rails about how Clinton destroyed the military. Who sets Service manpower levels, funds programs, and all defense spending? Congress, of course. Not saying it was against the President's wishes -- it wasn't. And yet today, these manpower, budget, and investment trends have continued for 6 years under a GOP pres & both houses... silence from the right on the state of the military. As soon as Dems got the Congress, you heard all about how they'd destroy the military again. I'll post another day on what the Repubs from 2000-2006 really did to the US military. As a prelude, this war costs us $320M EVERY day ... that's ~3 F-22s EVERY day we could have bought and prepared for the next war. Not only do we lose that money to recapitalize, but we are wearing the remaining systems at an incredible rate. Tanks planned for 500mi/yr are getting 10x that in desrt conditions. The military is a shell of what it was or could have been due to the Repubs. But they know that all thewir followers will continue to see them as the party strong on defense... funny thing, the military budgets are already looking better since election of '06. [/ QUOTE ] Totally avoided my points about entitlement spending, thrown in with a few strawmen, and non sequiters.
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#85
05-03-2007, 04:16 PM
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Re: Cite One Restriction of Freedom from the Right....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] -- GDP increased as economy boomed fueled by this new internets thingy (so %GDP data will be misleading) [/ QUOTE ] It's misleading not to use GDP figures. I've explained why many times. Basically government revenues and spending as a percentage of GDP have stayed within fairly narrow ranges. It would be completely ridiculous to compare a government spending in 1970 with government spending in 2007 in absolute dollar terms. Government spending and revenues tend to rise as GDP rises and spending follows. It's easy to see why this is the case. Anyway in the case I cited of medicare vs. defense spending it doesn't matter whether it's measured in absolute dollar terms or percentage of GDP. [/ QUOTE ] So you think the cost of defending a country is directly proportional to that country's GDP??
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#86
05-03-2007, 04:32 PM
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Re: Cite One Restriction of Freedom from the Right....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] -- GDP increased as economy boomed fueled by this new internets thingy (so %GDP data will be misleading) [/ QUOTE ] It's misleading not to use GDP figures. I've explained why many times. Basically government revenues and spending as a percentage of GDP have stayed within fairly narrow ranges. It would be completely ridiculous to compare a government spending in 1970 with government spending in 2007 in absolute dollar terms. Government spending and revenues tend to rise as GDP rises and spending follows. It's easy to see why this is the case. Anyway in the case I cited of medicare vs. defense spending it doesn't matter whether it's measured in absolute dollar terms or percentage of GDP. [/ QUOTE ] So you think the cost of defending a country is directly proportional to that country's GDP?? [/ QUOTE ] Huhhhhhhhhhhhhh??????????????????????????????????? ?? In 1962 government revenues were $99.7 billion which was 17.6% of GDP. In 2005 government revenues were $2.1539 trillion which was 17.6% of GDP. In absolute dollar terms revenues were much different but in terms of percentage of GDP they were the same. In 1988 the budget deficit was $155 billion which represented 3.1% of GDP. In 2002 the budget deficit was $157.1 billion which represent 1.5% of GDP. Even though the the amounts in absolute dollar terms are roughly the same, the budget deficit in 1988 was far bigger. Here's a link to the CBO numbers: CBO Budget Data
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#87
05-03-2007, 04:45 PM
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Re: Cite One Restriction of Freedom from the Right....
ugh I think I thought I was in another thread.
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#88
05-03-2007, 04:59 PM
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Re: Cite One Restriction of Freedom from the Right....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I find it curious how you, pvn, Nielsio and other freedom-loving ACists are so quick to try and make oppression more a left-wing phenomenon. Maybe I am just reading you guys wrong. If so, I'm sorry. [/ QUOTE ] Fwiw, I've also noticed that a lot of the ACists here seem to sound republican in non-AC threads. I don't think you're imagining it. [/ QUOTE ] The board has a ton more Democrats than Republicans, so what do you expect? I'm also more likely to argue with a Democrat than a Republican simply because I feel that Republicans are more likely to be more stubborn and close-minded, so there's less point in arguing with them. Arguing with Democrats more certainly makes one seem more Republican I guess.
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#89
05-03-2007, 05:25 PM
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Re: Cite One Restriction of Freedom from the Right....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I find it curious how you, pvn, Nielsio and other freedom-loving ACists are so quick to try and make oppression more a left-wing phenomenon. Maybe I am just reading you guys wrong. If so, I'm sorry. [/ QUOTE ] Fwiw, I've also noticed that a lot of the ACists here seem to sound republican in non-AC threads. I don't think you're imagining it. [/ QUOTE ] The board has a ton more Democrats than Republicans, so what do you expect? I'm also more likely to argue with a Democrat than a Republican simply because I feel that Republicans are more likely to be more stubborn and close-minded, so there's less point in arguing with them. [/ QUOTE ] Ha! I'm not so sure about that one. I, for one, am incredibly close-minded. [ QUOTE ] Arguing with Democrats more certainly makes one seem more Republican I guess. [/ QUOTE ] That's true. I also think that libertarians are more commonly ex-GOP than ex-democrat, although I have no statistical basis for that. Maybe old habits die hard? Anyway, not saying it's bad if it's the case, which it may not be--just an observation.
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#90
05-03-2007, 05:29 PM
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Re: Cite One Restriction of Freedom from the Right....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It took big government intervention such as the Civil Rights Act and Supreme Court cases like Brown by "activist judges" to bring an end to practices like segregation, poll taxes, literacy tests, bans on interacial marriage. [/ QUOTE ] And it took government to *start* those practices. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong again. Those were the social norms of the time and had nothing to do with the government. [/ QUOTE ] Why were those practices *mandated* by *legislation*, exactly? [/ QUOTE ] I'll bet racism, discrimination, and slavery were also practiced in areas settled by Southerners before govts were formed. Wouldn't you?
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