Small stakes, live tipping advice?

[goofball]

Starting now for every dealer I see come in and say $1 is an insult I'm going to stiff the next dealer I see.

[Gonso]

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as your employer I think I will need to take a look at my options and see if perhaps I can find some workers who might "settle" for say 18/hr. You see, as a player, I am running a business, and like any good business, costs must be kept under control. It's nothing personal....

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...As your manager, I just can't justify your salary when I can get the same service for half the cost. If you dont think I can, try going on strike. It worked out well for the grocery store clerks.

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EDIT: No, you can't get the same service for half the cost. DUCY?

OK leykis, you sure seem to giving yourself a lot of titles. Let me knock you off your little power trip with a little dose of reality:

You are neither my "employer" nor my "manager." You are a patron/customer of a casino which happens to employee me. I answer to casino management, not you. At my poker table, I run the game, not you. If I don't do my job well, you can stiff me or complain to my employer, and this is a lot different than being my employer or manager.

Second, you really seem to have some personal issue with the amount dealers earn in tips, even if you're a little misinformed. Why exactly does it bother you so much? I don't know if you have issues with your own income or something, but you seem WAY too bothered by it.

Third, you seem to like making broad, baseless comments about all poker players to support your points, such as, "most players are horrible buisness owners" and "poker players in general do not understand the value of money", in order to try and support your point. Neither is true; you'll find all types of people playing in a casino to include the poker room.

Professionals of all kinds, doctors, industry leaders... I mean business owners are literally all over the place. Are you kidding? There's all kinds of data on that shows that the average casino patron is better off financially and better educated then the general population.

All of these people are tipping out of generosity, not because they're too stupid to know better.

[Gonso]

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Many would say that the above quoted statment is evil.

Selfishness is a virtue.

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You're Darth Maul every Halloween, aren't you?

[Brokeski]

hahahaha, okay i know this is 2+2, but that comment defeintly earned a


+1

[leykis]

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You are neither my "employer" nor my "manager." You are a patron/customer of a casino which happens to employee me. I answer to casino management, not you. At my poker table, I run the game, not you. If I don't do my job well, you can stiff me or complain to my employer, and this is a lot different than being my employer or manager.


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The players pay the majority portion of your salary, and are in direct control over what you get paid. We do not pay the card room/casino, and then let them distribute the money as salary to the dealers. So given that you “answer to casino management”, how about we give one dollar out of every pot dealt to casino management and then they can distribute the money to the dealers as they see fit. Do you think they would be as generous. No, they would run some numbers. 1 table, 30 hands per hour is $30/hr. They already pay the dealers $4-6/hr so they would now decide whether the dealers should be paid $35/hr ($72800/year) or maybe they could find some good dealers who just might work for a little less than that. If so, they could keep the difference as additional profit or put the money back into the business.

But wait, the fun does not stop here. The casino management across the street runs the same numbers and realizes that they could only take 50 cents out of each pot and still pay the dealers $20/hr. But now, they could advertise the fact that they rake less than the other casino and attract more players to their room. If they are successful in this, each additional table will provide them with an additional $120/hr for the room. (That’s 30 hands per hour * $4 rake)

This is the type of logic that should be used by the players who currently pay the dealers salary, but its not. The average player thinks… “hey, I just won a $200 pot playing 4-8, if I give just $1 dollar out of the 200 chips I am now stacking I will look cheap” So he tips 4 dollars because after all what’s $4 out of this 200. Of course, he does not think, “well $4 dollars is 25% of my hourly rate if I am crushing the game, and so if I do this twice an hour I am throwing away half of my winrate so that I can provide the dealer with a salary that his “employer” would never dream of paying.” I would not say that this is out of stupidity as you suggested but rather social pressure and a temporary feeling of wealth (winning a big pot).

For this reason, this player is essentially being fleeced. I am not saying that it’s the dealer’s fault that this happens because it is not. It is they way the system is set up. That said, I don’t think you will see too many dealers complaining about it.

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Second, you really seem to have some personal issue with the amount dealers earn in tips, even if you're a little misinformed. Why exactly does it bother you so much? I don't know if you have issues with your own income or something, but you seem WAY too bothered by it.


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To me this is not a personal issue, it’s a moral one. The moral necessity for someone to earn what the keep is something I consider to be among the highest virtues of man. This forum is not really the appropriate venue to discuss morality, for a full explanation, please see any of the philosophical works of Ayn Rand.

[daveT]

Brokeski. It is not that we overvalue a dollar. But you should put the amount of money you are tipping in perspective.

I will give you a ton of credit here and say that you are a $8.00/hr winner at 3/6 if you were tipping one dollar a pot.

Let's say, that on average, you scrape on large pot per hour. And you play 20 hours on one week. It appears that you like to tip something like five dollars for very large pots, and one for very small pots. For the sake of my line of thought. I will say that you are tipping out two dollars per large pot.

In one week, you would be earning 160 with the one dollar tip. If you add the extra 2 to every large pot, you are tipping 40 extra per week. Big woop? that is 25% of your expectation. Over-tipping is costly, no matter what stakes you are playing. I recognize that you are scooping very large pots at times, but you must recognize that you won't always run so hot, and expectation has a broader definition than raising on the river while holding a full house.

As a general rule, I don't like over-tippers. Their pattern is that they tip grotesque amounts of money when they are running good, but yell at the dealer and throw cards when they are losing ("but i tip so well). Sadly, since they are all losing players, I have to see this attitude more often. I hope that you don't become one of these imbisiles. I wish the casino would kick these people out, kick them in the sac, and call their employers. Why these moron's can find a decent paying job and I can't is another conversation.

What I find ironic is that if you don't tip 5 a hand at 4/8, you are looked at as a cheapskate, but if you tip a red (3) in the 9/18, everyone looks at you like a moron.

I'm not suggesting there is an intellegence level reflected by income disparities, but the argument probably holds some truth.

There are two dealers that I refuse to tip. The first one is because I raised to a certain amount in NL, and he refused to recognize that I called out my raise, enforcing a string bet. I was sitting in seat 9. Clearly, he was being an idiot. He also looked at me angrily when I tipped two dollars out of a large pot. Excuse me for being cheap.

The second is because he is a total ****. I have never seen him tipped during one of his downs.

[Brokeski]

i totaly see where you are coming from, however, this being a 3/6 or 4/8 game with a full kill, i would say on average i make (prepared to get made fun of for this comment) but about 15 dollars an hour and im only saying that so i dont get made fun of too much, i'm positive i make more than that. secondly, i will never get mad at the dealers for any reason because about 90 percent of them are my friends. there is one dealer who i won't tip because i was on the bad end of a situation he totaly [censored] up that was not in my favor. but like other people have gone to say, if you are playing live 3/6, you shouldnt be playing it for real money.

To give you an idea of what kind of 3/6 game this is, there is this old rich woman who sits down with a few racks and tells me and the other young guys at the table that she hates her grandkids because they are mean to their mother so she wants to give the nice boys in the poker room her money. i have had her call me down with hands like 7 and 9 high just because she wants to be loved before she crokes.

[hime]

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i have had her call me down with hands like 7 and 9 high just because she wants to be loved before she crokes.

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I don't know how to feel.

[Brokeski]

they call her "river pat" because she calls down every hand to the river regardless. never raises.

[DWarrior]

Brokeski, you're a huge tool.