Really Rich Guys - Top 10 Traders - Page 9

DcifrThs · #81 04-17-2007, 11:40 PM

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fwiw, many of these funds make their portfolio holdings available to their investors on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. If you are big enough, you can have a seperate account at a L/S fund, for example, and see all the trades they do for you every day.

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really? i haven't heard of this. i work for one of the biggest and DEFINITELY the most transparent hedge fund and we only show our positions. i'm pretty sure we dont show any actual trades to clients no matter how big they are. they all fund the vehicle in the same way too.

i've never heard of an investor in a large hedge fund (ie. renaissance, goldman, AQR etc.) getting to see any actual trades. lol, forget trades, goldman is a freaking black box, as are a bunch of others. our clients tell us repeatedly how nice it is to have such an open fund that gives positions & thoughts on them as well as an open dialogue on how they are generated.

anyways, glad to hear you guys got out of aramanth...i hear one of the guys is starting up a new fund. should be a hot commodity.

Barron

The DaveR · #82 04-17-2007, 11:55 PM

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One of our funds paid extra to get out of Amaranth early due to what they perceived as poor risk controls months before they blew up.

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You had a fund invested in Amaranth?

beta1607 · #83 04-18-2007, 07:39 PM

Roughly how much do the junior and mid-level staff at a top hedge fund make?

DcifrThs · #84 04-19-2007, 07:45 AM

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Roughly how much do the junior and mid-level staff at a top hedge fund make?

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do you mean Jr. analysts? Jr. researchers? Jr. administrative assistants? Jr. managers?

mid level those above? etc.

it's just a like a normal company. in order to attract the best, you must a) make it a great place to work, b) offer competative salaries, c) offer promotion (in the case of my hedge fund based entirely on merit).

combination of those gets you the best people. period.

out of the 14 people in my group, 2 switched from mckinsey (harvard undergrad, & grad), 1 turned down a goldman offer after interning there and here, a few others are from top schools who turned down other goldman type offers, & i was a former poker player who loves finance.the rest either came straight from undergrad or switched from IB/consulting.

overall, if you think Jr./mid-level folks get paid insanely high wages, you're wrong. think about it? if you were a top Jr level person at goldman and knew somebody at X was getting paid insanely more than you & that you were the same skill level, you'd go work at X for slightly less money. this happens until competition pushes that insanely high wage down to competative levels.

Barron

DcifrThs · #85 04-19-2007, 08:14 AM

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One of our funds paid extra to get out of Amaranth early due to what they perceived as poor risk controls months before they blew up.

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You had a fund invested in Amaranth?

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one's due diligence is another's gamble.

Barron

The DaveR · #86 04-19-2007, 08:56 AM

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One of our funds paid extra to get out of Amaranth early due to what they perceived as poor risk controls months before they blew up.

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You had a fund invested in Amaranth?

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one's due diligence is another's gamble.

Barron

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Not the point. I'd like to make a mangement fee and performance incentives by investing in other funds.

IronFly · #87 04-19-2007, 12:01 PM

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Not the point. I'd like to make a mangement fee and performance incentives by investing in other funds.

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Fund-of-funds is the term of art. They do layer their fees on top.

The DaveR · #88 04-19-2007, 12:07 PM

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Not the point. I'd like to make a mangement fee and performance incentives by investing in other funds.

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Fund-of-funds is the term of art. They do layer their fees on top.

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I know this, but I didn't know it was common to have hedge funds do this. The standard hedge fund comp structure--specifically perfomance comp--makes this seem like a terrible deal for investors.

IronFly · #89 04-19-2007, 12:57 PM

I had a friend who used to work at a fund-of-funds. If I recall correctly, they did charge management and performance fees, but they were much less than the 2/20 at a regular fund.

ozyman · #90 04-19-2007, 01:55 PM

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Not the point. I'd like to make a mangement fee and performance incentives by investing in other funds.

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Fund-of-funds is the term of art. They do layer their fees on top.

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I know this, but I didn't know it was common to have hedge funds do this. The standard hedge fund comp structure--specifically perfomance comp--makes this seem like a terrible deal for investors.

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yeah that does seem strange, especially since Amaranth was (allegedly) a multi-strategy fund. More common is a multi-strategy hedge fund outsourcing a specific strategy (convertible arb, activism, etc) to an outside manager to get exposure to that strategy and paying them less in fees (1%/10% or just 20% carry) without having to build out their team internally. They aren't double charging fees, just making 2%/20% on the outsourced assets while paying out 1/10% and doing very little actual work on those assets.