Tiger Woods, just as an amateur, Casey Martin

[DrewDevil]

Freddy Couples was on record as saying as soon as Martin made it to the Tour and started using a cart, he'd be next in line (bad back).

The players would have been lining up for reasons they needed to ride in a cart. It would have been a farce.

If riding provides no edge over walking, why would this be?

[capone0]

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I don't want to shake epeens but I'll put my golf experience up against yours. Besides it doesn't matter who the more experienced golfer is between us, the best golfers in the world and the professional league they play in eschew the use of golf carts and that's all you should need to know. The Champions Tour doesn't count.

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It does count. The same group that runs the PGA runs the Champions Tour. If carts don't impact the game on the Champions Tour, then they obviously don't impact the PGA tour either. Hypocrisy at its best.

You may have more extensive golf experience than me, but I doubt that its by much.

The sport of golf has nothing to do with the act of walking.

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Well the PGA, the league that runs the sport tends to think it does. Maybe you don't think having a cart is an edge, but the guys writing the books, the guys running the sport do.

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Really? Then why do they let the Senior players do it? The whole argument they used in the courts was that walking was an "integral part of the game", which is BS.

I didn't say it didn't give anyone an edge, just not an edge to the players who need the cart. Who thinks Casey Martin has an edge riding a cart? He can barely walk.

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Why is it bs? If the league believes it is and it's part of the rules it's not bs no matter how hard you believe it is. It's not like they found out Casey Martin was going to join the PGA so they said, f-that lets get rid of carts. It's been the rule for the entirity of the PGA.

Stop bringing up the Senior League, it's a different bag. These guys are much older and it's also part of their rules that they can play with a cart while it's not in the PGA. They are not equivalent.

As I said earlier and others have said, every Sport isn't for everyone. Should we make exceptions as well so Casey Martin can play sports where running is an integral part of the game? Casey is a smart man, he went to Stanford. I think hes coaching at Oregon now. This doesn't stop him from working completely just stops him from playing on the tour.

[AngusThermopyle]

A 7000 yard course is 4 miles long.
4 miles over 3 hours (not sure how long a PGA round takes).
Martin had to keep to the cart paths. Out of cart, walk to ball, even if it is on the opposite side of the fairway. Make shot. Walk back to cart. Not sure how much walking he actually saved.

I think people miss the phrase 'reasonable accommodation' when it comes to things like the ADA. One side thinks you should do everything to accommodate people with disabilities, one side thinks you do nothing.

I guess the question is what is 'reasonable'.

Martin won in court. Has there been a flood of others?

[pgjcbsn]

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A 7000 yard course is 4 miles long.
4 miles over 3 hours (not sure how long a PGA round takes).

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7000 yard course is indeed a little over 4 miles. Thats if you walk straight down the middle of every fairway, straight to the flag, and then magically transported to the next tee. To walk a round of golf on a 7000 yard course you'll walk about 7 miles and a typical round takes 4 hours. On the PGA tour its closer to 5 hours.

The only point I was trying to make about the senior tour is they have a choice in riding in a cart or walking and most of the better players choose to walk. If it was this huge advantage to ride in a cart why wouldn't they all ride?

[capone0]

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A 7000 yard course is 4 miles long.
4 miles over 3 hours (not sure how long a PGA round takes).

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7000 yard course is indeed a little over 4 miles. Thats if you walk straight down the middle of every fairway, straight to the flag, and then magically transported to the next tee. To walk a round of golf on a 7000 yard course you'll walk about 7 miles and a typical round takes 4 hours. On the PGA tour its closer to 5 hours.

The only point I was trying to make about the senior tour is they have a choice in riding in a cart or walking and most of the better players choose to walk. If it was this huge advantage to ride in a cart why wouldn't they all ride?

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Maybe they enjoy the exercise. The PGA has decided it does play a role in the game, I don't know why we can't live with that. It's not that irrational that it can have an effect. Maybe they want their players atleast in some shape to handle that. Daly of course is an exception to that rule, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind a couple of exceptions to rules himself.

[DrewDevil]

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The only point I was trying to make about the senior tour is they have a choice in riding in a cart or walking and most of the better players choose to walk.

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I've been to a couple Champions events and this was not the case, most of the players were riding.

[BigSoonerFan]

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The only point I was trying to make about the senior tour is they have a choice in riding in a cart or walking and most of the better players choose to walk.

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I've been to a couple Champions events and this was not the case, most of the players were riding.

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Key word: Most

[BigSoonerFan]

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A 7000 yard course is 4 miles long.
4 miles over 3 hours (not sure how long a PGA round takes).

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7000 yard course is indeed a little over 4 miles. Thats if you walk straight down the middle of every fairway, straight to the flag, and then magically transported to the next tee. To walk a round of golf on a 7000 yard course you'll walk about 7 miles and a typical round takes 4 hours. On the PGA tour its closer to 5 hours.

The only point I was trying to make about the senior tour is they have a choice in riding in a cart or walking and most of the better players choose to walk. If it was this huge advantage to ride in a cart why wouldn't they all ride?

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Maybe they enjoy the exercise. The PGA has decided it does play a role in the game, I don't know why we can't live with that. It's not that irrational that it can have an effect. Maybe they want their players atleast in some shape to handle that. Daly of course is an exception to that rule, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind a couple of exceptions to rules himself.

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The PGA "says" that it plays a role in the game, but that doesn't mean they believe that. The real reason they don't want it is because they want the players to walk among the fans (although not really that close) and carts certainly diminish the beauty of the course/game. Can you imagine carts driving down the fairway of ANGC? (although the PGA Tour doesn't run the Masters)

The whole point of this is, what if Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson had the same disease that Casey Martin has? Are you going to keep the most skilled players in the game out of tournaments because they can't walk from ball to ball? That's ridiculous.

[Toro]

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The whole point of this is, what if Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson had the same disease that Casey Martin has? Are you going to keep the most skilled players in the game out of tournaments because they can't walk from ball to ball? That's ridiculous.

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Man, you stole my post. Let's say Casey martin never existed and this never came up before. And all of a sudden Tiger Woods got some malady where it became impossible to walk the course but he could still play at a high level with the use of a cart.

Do you think the PGA would make an exception or would Tiger have to fight it all the way to the US Supreme Court? I think it's pretty obvious what they would do.

[By-Tor]

the ADA has no place in a sports event or league discussion.