You Can Run The Hundred In 8.3

[jah7_fsu1]

Who says they lack the size to do it? We have no idea about this guys size, all we know is he benches 230, which will do you little for getting open. Why would he get single coverage for the first few games? After pre-season game number one everyone will know his speed advantage. Before that, because the press will write about it in practice numero uno.

The tampa two isn't about single coverage anyways. Corners are rarely put "on an island" these days. You will have the initial bump to contend with, outside linebackers covering the short routes and safetys starting about 15 yards back. If he was going to get single coverage all day of course he would be unstoppable. This guy just woke up and could run fast...that's all we know. I think your underestimating the power required to get off someone blasting you immediately before you get a chance to really run. You are adding a lot to the initial question. Of course if he can do everything a regular wideout can he will be a huge weapon. His speed alone won't do it though.

[blackize]

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Who says they lack the size to do it?

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Your average corner is 5'11 190 pounds. There are different types of corners in the NFL. There's the Champ Bailey type who plays coverage and almost never bumps and then there are the Rod Woodson types who specialize in bump and run. The Rod Woodson types are much less common than the Champ Bailey types.

Not only that I don't think you are understanding what bump and run does. The goal is to reroute the player so that the timing of the route is off. If you watch an NFL game where a player is being bumped at the line he comes free and is open but the QB expects him to be somewhere else and the play doesn't work out. This is not nearly as effective against a player who will primarily be running a fly or a post route as the timing is far less important.

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Why would he get single coverage for the first few games? After pre-season game number one everyone will know his speed advantage.

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I would expect him to hardly be used in preseason. Many coaches don't show much about what their players can do or what they plan on doing scheme wise in the preseason. If I played this guy at all in preseason it would be so that he could work on his route running not to showcase his speed.

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Before that, because the press will write about it in practice numero uno.

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His blazing speed will still be underestimated even if the press does write about it. If they write about it at all I would expect it to be more along the lines of boy is he fast and not HOLY HELL OTHER TEAMS WATCH OUT YOU HAVE NO CHANCE AT RUNNING STRIDE FOR STRIDE WITH THIS GUY!

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The tampa two isn't about single coverage anyways. Corners are rarely put "on an island" these days.

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This is true but safeties are frequently out of position if they guess fly and the receiver runs post or when they bite on play action or when they cover a route more in the middle of the field. Just the fact that the safety has to respect this guys speed would drastically open up things like deep in routes.

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You will have the initial bump to contend with, outside linebackers covering the short routes and safetys starting about 15 yards back.

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Are we forgetting about blitzes here? Very few teams in the NFL regularly only rush 4 in passing situations now so more often than not the the coverage is going to be lacking somewhere on the field just because of the double team and blitzing.

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This guy just woke up and could run fast...that's all we know.

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True but I've never seen anyone who was obscenely fast that couldn't also change direction with speed. Natural ability like that comes bundled with other things like balance and agility.

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I think your underestimating the power required to get off someone blasting you immediately before you get a chance to really run.

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I addressed this before. The CB either lines up right on top of the receiver and is open to jukes or he lines up a few yards back and has to get the receiver at almost full speed. Also if they put him in motion and snap the ball as he is running laterally it will be much more difficult for the CB to effectively bump him and in fact could get him running free down the middle of the seam in the Tampa 2 you keep bringing up.

[jah7_fsu1]

1. Rod Woodson doesn't play corner, he plays free safety. 2. Big physical DB's are widely used in the Tampa Two. 3. The bump is used to throw a reciever off his route when the reciever is strong enough to sustain the initial bump. A corner is going to be much stronger than any 23 year old guy waking up with a 230 pound bench. Overall strong...in the hips/and core musculature. With this advantage, his strength could be used to completely knock this guy down. Which is why I'm saying speed alone won't do it.

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I would expect him to hardly be used in preseason. Many coaches don't show much about what their players can do or what they plan on doing scheme wise in the preseason. If I played this guy at all in preseason it would be so that he could work on his route running not to showcase his speed.

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This is wrong on so many levels. You could not keep a player of this speed a secret by any means. First off, everyone would know about his speed. Teams are only going to pick him because of his speed and all teams are going to know that. How is he going to get drafted without showing that speed in the first place?

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Are we forgetting about blitzes here? Very few teams in the NFL regularly only rush 4 in passing situations now so more often than not the the coverage is going to be lacking somewhere on the field just because of the double team and blitzing.

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Actually we are forgetting about blitzes. I keep bringing up the Tampa Two because it is a form of defense being used in some variation by almost every team in the NFL. It is the defense primarily run by the Bears, but also used a lot by the Chiefs, Colts, etc. Sports Illustrated had a fantastic article on it earlier in the year. The idea is that you can generate pressure on the QB with 4 down linemen while stopping the big play with anyone else. Basically it's avoid the big play and let's see if the QB can 5 and 7 yard us the length of the field. They are assuming he makes a mistake somewhere. NFL defenses are probably blitzing less now than they have in a long, long time.

Sklansky said he was by no means a great athlete. I don't think "this guy" would have the power to take a full on bump and run shot from a big physical defensive back. If we give him balance and agility, I still don't think just anyone could take a full on shot from a defensive back in the national football league and be fine with it.

[jah7_fsu1]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...&type=lgns

Here is the SI article on the Tampa Two. I don't have my copy of the issue with me, but its pretty neat if your a big time football fan (I'm actually aspiring to coach one day like my Dad does). The article does a good job of breaking down everyones roles in the defense.

I still believe that given the information the guy wouldn't be a success. If you give him the tools and body of even an average DI college reciever I think he would be a huge force in the game. I also think that NFL coordinators would come up with ways to slow him (double press coverage comes to mind) so he would be the ultimate decoy tool and effectively force defenses to partially ignore other wide recievers/backs.

[blackize]

I'm not aware of any big physical CBs playing the game today. But I could be wrong and they could be around in greater numbers than I thought.

He isn't going to be drafted. Only one team will know about his speed because he will be a walk on.

I understand the purpose of the Tampa 2. It is only effective when used by teams who can get pressure with their front four. Off the top of my head these teams include Bears, Panthers, Colts(not this year though), and Giants(not this year again). Forgot about the Seahawks but I still think theyre the most overated team in the NFL

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Sklansky said he was by no means a great athlete. I don't think "this guy" would have the power to take a full on bump and run shot from a big physical defensive back. If we give him balance and agility, I still don't think just anyone could take a full on shot from a defensive back in the national football league and be fine with it.

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The problem is these guys miss time their bumps a lot and don't reroute receivers by much a lot of the time. You hardly ever see someone grounded because of a bump at the line. So I can't see even a guy who isn't as big or strong as your average NFL receiver getting thrown to the ground often.

You still haven't addressed my thoughts about scheming to get this guy off the line which I would like to hear some thoughts on.

Entire playbooks could be drawn up around this guy because there would have to be safety help and a bump on every play to keep him in check.

I just saw your edit and the thought about double press coverage is interesting. The applications as a decoy alone are so juicy that this guy could pull in a huge salary, but might not get the endorsements that would really push the cash up there.

[jah7_fsu1]

I just was saying the "average" corner would be much bigger/physical than this joe off the street. Benching 230 (how many reps BTW) doesn't say much, and the bench press is a horrible measure of strength. In fact, I'm surprised the NFL uses the Max Reps Bench (think it's 225 pounds as many as you can do) test at all. One of those old staples that never went away.

Still, even as a walk on the press coverage is amazing. Radio stations, newspapers, etc, cover everything about every mini-camp, practice, etc, they can attend. Keeping this guy a secret would be next to impossible and even if you did it would last until his first game...so not a huge advantage.

You do hardly ever see anyone grounded, in fact most bump and runs don't even want the CB's to attempt to ground the wideout (generating that much force that fast leaves you out of balance and missing the initial bump throws everything out of whack.) I just thought to myself, if someone like me was blazing fast, I wouldn't be able to stay on my feet if even the average corner jammed me. That was my point.

It doesn't have to be the tampa two, I was just using it because it was one of the most appropriate defenses to slow this guy down. The inital bump and run used to be a staple of man to man defense, but the tampa two uses it in a zone defense. Its all part of the NFL game...defenses make things to stop offenses, offenses adapt to the new defenses, defenses adapt to the new offense, etc. Been going on since the beginning.



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Entire playbooks could be drawn up around this guy because there would have to be safety help and a bump on every play to keep him in check.

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That again is why I selected the Tampa Two as an ideal defense to slow this guy down. Both those things are built in.

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You still haven't addressed my thoughts about scheming to get this guy off the line which I would like to hear some thoughts on.

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The use of motion in the NFL and college football is largely used not so much to get a reciever "more open" or what not, but to actually throw a defensive blitz package off. Your not really "fooling" the defense or allowing the current reciever/back to get more open, your trying to make the defense adjust and disrupt their inital defensive call. However, we must keep in mind your getting into dangerous territory when you motion a designated wide reciver. If you use "short" motion to keep the DB on him you negate the advantage your talking about and don't gain anything. If you use a long motion and don't get him outside you could be looking at getting that inital bump from an outside linebacker who would really have the size advantage. Also, if I'm "running across" the momentum I now have makes it much easier for someone to knock me down. So instead of having the one on one early matchup where we are both coming from 0 accelleration (me and the DB) I'm accelerated facing a potential outside linebacker running up and now I'm really in danger of being knocked to the ground.

Hope that last part makes sense. I can expand on it if not.

[ExaMeter]

This Thread is really fun. I should read and learn about my poker game here but i have to respond.

This fast-as-hell guy would be way better off becoming the greatest track and field 100meter runner and still making millions off commercials than persuing an NFL career. Manning, Strahan etc make much more than Micheal Johnson ever made from commercials but our guy would never ever become as big a celebrity (and therefore being worthy of endorsement millions) in the NFL then he would simply by being the fastest man ever on the track.

Like some guys already said he would be blown out his shoes at the line of scrimage almost everytime. Guys like Charles Woodson have that much punch AND quick feet that our supersprinter wasnt even able to take off.
And even if he could take of easily his advantage would only hold if his team was about more than 40 yards off the endzone as the field was too small afterwards. Every somewhat quick NFL safety is able to cover him deep as it is common for safeties to be about 12 to 15 yards deep before the snap.

If the guys was mediocre in everything but his topspeed he is no serious threat to a modern defense.
If his physical constitution is questionable as well (compared to standard NFL physiques) there's a big chance his career wouldn't last that long either.
Just imagine one underthrown pass, our guy stops, starts coming back towards the ball and roy williams smacks the [censored] out of him. That would be the end of all dreams of getting rich from endorsements.

[blackize]

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The use of motion in the NFL and college football is largely used not so much to get a reciever "more open" or what not, but to actually throw a defensive blitz package off. Your not really "fooling" the defense or allowing the current reciever/back to get more open, your trying to make the defense adjust and disrupt their inital defensive call. However, we must keep in mind your getting into dangerous territory when you motion a designated wide reciver. If you use "short" motion to keep the DB on him you negate the advantage your talking about and don't gain anything. If you use a long motion and don't get him outside you could be looking at getting that inital bump from an outside linebacker who would really have the size advantage. Also, if I'm "running across" the momentum I now have makes it much easier for someone to knock me down. So instead of having the one on one early matchup where we are both coming from 0 accelleration (me and the DB) I'm accelerated facing a potential outside linebacker running up and now I'm really in danger of being knocked to the ground.

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I can't argue with any of the first half of your post so I'll focus on this.

I realize that motion is typically used to discover man coverage and confuse the defense forcing them to adjust, but with a guy who can be such a mismatch I think a new purpose could be achieved.

All the motion would have to achieve here would be to screw up the angle at which the DB is trying to bump him. Assuming he has decent agility he should be able to start in close to the formation and slide down the LOS a step faster than the defender and just bolt upfield. He wouldn't even have to be running full speed along the LOS as he will have the advantage of moving first and it will only take a few steps to get the DB out of position to bump him.

This is only one of the ideas I had. Another is to utilize him out of the backfield. This would require more precise route running, however and would largely consist of swing routes.

[jah7_fsu1]

Oh I definitely see what your saying on the motion thing. However, I think the more you can keep this guy out of the middle of the field at the snap of the ball the better. Even at this guys blazing speed, it is going to be risky to have him trying to "dodge" someone trying to get that inital bump on him. I could easily see defenses saying, ok you put this guy in motion midway if his inital "dodge bump" break is inside we have our outside linebacker smack the hell out of him, if it's outiside we have our corner smack him. You wouldn't want this guy to be any situations where the defense can "sandwich" him. I see what your saying, just not so sure it would work out in practice...but who knows I've never seen a guy this fast on a football field.


I don't think you have anything to gain by using him out of the backfield. It will be more than difficult to use this guy in any sort of route that is more advantageous starting out in the backfield. I just don't think you have anything to gain by moving him farther away from the LOS. All you do here really is add time to get him into a route and this isn't something that helps our offense out. This is assuming of course that he is "just a really fast small guy" who has no deceptive properties of being in the backfield. The playe as no defined isn't really a threat on any sort of isolation or running play.

[SuperUberBob]

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1. Rod Woodson doesn't play corner, he plays free safety.

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Incorrect. Woodson was a starting cornerback for the Steelers during the early stages of his NFL career. He switched over to safety later.