Robert Kiyosaki

[Tien]

John T Reed's teachings appeal to the people who are too cheap to pay for an education.

So many people walk into real estate looking for hte cheapest education. The cheapest education you can get is worth what you paid for it. In fact, the cheapest education will end up costing you the most money in the long run due to all the mistakes you make. I spend time to continuously educate myself with the same courses from the gurus (I buy them off ebay because I am a cheap bastard). If I knew 3 months ago what I knew now, I would have closed 3 more deals with combined net equity of 50-60 grand. How expensive was that seminar?

These cheap folks buy 1 course, apply it in all the wrong ways possible and then complain on msg boards that these "gurus" are full of sh!t.

Yeah, of course it doesn't work if you do it ALL WRONG.

I've seen people mess up some of the easiest marketing things to apply. Simple hand written letters. They do it their way instead of the Guru's way and wonder why it doesn't work.

Misery loves company and those people love John T Reed.

[jaydub]

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Reed goes in depth about why these people are full of [censored] so he clearly has read the books.He is not just bashing someone for the sake of bashing them.

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He's bashing the author... but the point of the book is not the author, it is the content... and the content is Motivational for a lot of people...

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Here's where I think the disconnect between the love and hate RK camps is; regardless of the quality of his teachings, he is being very dishonest about the source of his wealth.

This is extended to all the other MLMers and gurus, if they were as successful as they claim, they wouldn't need to tour the country shilling books and materials. They wouldn't need to derive the majority of their incomes through teaching. Frankly if their methods worked as well as advertised, it would be far more profitable to keep quiet and just use the methods.

J

[Tien]

That is where I strongly disagree.

Some of them derive the majority of their incomes through teaching, many of them enjoy doing both. I buy courses from the Gurus that do both.

Not everyone on this planet is so greedy for money that they will refuse to divulge their secrets. If that was the case, these forums would not exist and David Sklansky would not write any books. How sad would that be?

I myself am mentoring many students and those students have in turned taught me a lot from their own experiences.

There is no way you can succeed in business professionally trying to hoard every single piece of secret / information to yourself. People will see right through that and choose not to do business with you.

I learn just as much from the experiences of the Gurus as the experiences of the students I mentor.

There is no way I would be able to succeed if I didn't stumble upon some free information that was not hoarded. You can be well assured in the future I will return that favor.

[Sniper]

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Reed goes in depth about why these people are full of [censored] so he clearly has read the books.He is not just bashing someone for the sake of bashing them.

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He's bashing the author... but the point of the book is not the author, it is the content... and the content is Motivational for a lot of people...

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Here's where I think the disconnect between the love and hate RK camps is; regardless of the quality of his teachings, he is being very dishonest about the source of his wealth.

This is extended to all the other MLMers and gurus, if they were as successful as they claim, they wouldn't need to tour the country shilling books and materials. They wouldn't need to derive the majority of their incomes through teaching. Frankly if their methods worked as well as advertised, it would be far more profitable to keep quiet and just use the methods.

J

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J,

You are now on a forum put up by a publishing company for the purpose of supporting their books... how can you even make this statement...

Do you question Sklansky on why he would write a book, when he could just not share his knowledge and have more fish in the pond?

[jaydub]

Tien and Sniper,

Sklansky is a bad analogy. The books and website move away from a gambling based income to a more traditional and passive one.

The gurus are doing the opposite, they claim passive incomes through their methods yet actively work to sell them.

Interesting that you both ignored my point regarding RK's source of wealth.

Tien, RK and the like are hardly doing their promotions for the good of society and a desire to "give back". That is laughable.

J

[Tien]

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Tien and Sniper,

Sklansky is a bad analogy. The books and website move away from a gambling based income to a more traditional and passive one.

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Bad analogy? Read back what you wrote and you will see our answers were perfectly justified as a response. I don't believe in keeping secret information to myself. I freely give out priceless information to my trainees because they have a burning desire to learn. I enjoy doing it. So does Robert Kiyosaki, so do a lot of Gurus out there, so does David Skalansky.

I wrote a couple of fundamental SSNL articles that have significantly helped many micro NL players. They show me testimonies in graphs in my PMs. I did it for free and feel happy to do it. That thread alone I have in Microstakes has 10 000+ views over past 3-4 months.

But hey, if I was a Patrick Antonius or Phil Ivey or Doyle brunson, and I compiled a gigantic course on cash game NL poker which includes a dozen CDs, and a huge volume of paperwork, I sure as HELL AIN'T gonna charge 30 bucks.

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The gurus are doing the opposite, they claim passive incomes through their methods yet actively work to sell them.

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So what if the Gurus and RK market their products and methods more aggressively. That's marketing 101 for you. These guys understand how to market aggressively, I consider that a good thing.

Anybody worth their salt in the field of marketing will know you will never sell anything if you don't believe in your product.

Any besides, we are all salesmen. Every job in the world can be labelled as "salesman". From doctors selling their services of healthcare for the government to accountants sellings services for tax advice. The better the salesman, the more income he makes. Most people would be ashamed to call themselves salesmen, yet most people are also ashamed of their incomes. Direct correlation?

The richest people on the face of the Earth and also some of the most noble benefactors have created their gigantic wealth by "selling" something. Yes, Warren Buffet as well. Every company he owns derives income from "selling".


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Interesting that you both ignored my point regarding RK's source of wealth.

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reasons:

1) My time isn't worth digging up trash on someone. Let John T Reed do that since he has nothing better to do.

2) I have read Robert Kiyosaki books and owe him my financial freedom. From reading his books, that is what he wanted for me, to achieve financial freedom. He suceeded, his material worked for me. May not work for everyone.

3) I will not comment on Robert Kiyosaki's source of wealth unless I am able to concretely see evidence. Wild claims by John T Reed supporters are biased to the core and deserve no recognition. I will only listen a neutral third party.

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Tien, RK and the like are hardly doing their promotions for the good of society and a desire to "give back". That is laughable.
J

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And you think hoarding information to yourself so that no one can learn from you helps society in what way?

I belong to the camp that believes the following:

"Real world entrepreneurial / business education is worth what you paid for it"

Most of these Gurus know their stuff. I practice what they preach and made it work with my own bare hands. That is why I defend them so much. I actually think their courses are dirty cheap compared to the amount of knowledge they provide if one would actually take the TIME and EFFORT to follow their instructions PROPERLY.




It is so easy to fail in Real Estate yet it is so much easier to blame someone else for our failures. So when people go out and fail because they don't apply the instructions properly, they give up and blame the guru.




I fail all the time. That is how I learn. I fail more in 1 week than a high school dropout has failed in 5 years. However I never give up and the gurus help me fail LESS and LESS each time.


One disclaimer: I do not claim all gurus / teachers out there are quality. Some of them are bad and some of them are good. Buyer beware. Do your homework, do a lot of research on each teacher / guru, and you easily will pick the good ones.

[Tien]

One more point.

Anyone who actively promotes any amount of time in their life to bringing other people down and try and dig as much dirt as possible are truly emotionally poor people.

I only listen to people who enjoy supporting others and seeing the good and immediately ignore the ones that bring any kind of negativity whatsoever to my life or is an active promoter of negativity. John T Reed belongs in that immediately ignore column.

Read any of the book by the giants: Dale Carnegie, Stephan Covy, Napoleon Hill and you will understand my point about negativity and how negative people can ruin your success in life.

[DesertCat]

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3) I will not comment on Robert Kiyosaki's source of wealth unless I am able to concretely see evidence. Wild claims by John T Reed supporters are biased to the core and deserve no recognition. I will only listen a neutral third party.


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Facts are unbiased. Reed provides many facts to support his viewpoint. Ignore Reed for the moment, you aren't offering anything to counter those facts.

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One disclaimer: I do not claim all gurus / teachers out there are quality. Some of them are bad and some of them are good. Buyer beware. Do your homework, do a lot of research on each teacher / guru, and you easily will pick the good ones.

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Anyone who has read RDPD has the basis for believing Kiyosaki is a fraud. It really wouldn't matter if he made up most of the book, or never made much money in real estate, it's that the book is full of fuzzy, non specific, advice. When Kiyosaki does get specific, he tells you to do things like incorporate (build another layer of costs) so you can write off expensive jewelry and vacations (commit tax fraud).

If I'm going to learn from a guru, I want specific, useful, non fraudulant advice.

RDPD supporters never give specifics on how Kiyosaki helped them. Typically they say he "motivated" them. Well, "The Richest Man In Babylon" gives you specific wealth building advice and motivation, without any tax fraud.

I'd like to hear what specific advice you got from RDPD that helped you. Maybe I missed something good in my copy.

[zimmer879]

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Anyone who actively promotes any amount of time in their life to bringing other people down and try and dig as much dirt as possible are truly emotionally poor people.

I only listen to people who enjoy supporting others and seeing the good and immediately ignore the ones that bring any kind of negativity whatsoever to my life or is an active promoter of negativity. John T Reed belongs in that immediately ignore column.

Read any of the book by the giants: Dale Carnegie, Stephan Covy, Napoleon Hill and you will understand my point about negativity and how negative people can ruin your success in life.

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So you immediately igonore the critics of snake oil salesmen because they're being negative?

[BradleyT]

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I'd like to hear what specific advice you got from RDPD that helped you. Maybe I missed something good in my copy.

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The major piece of advice for me was to get out of the rat race. I had never considered starting my own business until I read his book. I'm still in the self-employed quadrant but I'll get into the business owner quadrant within 1-2 years. Heck, being self-employed so far has been 10x better than working for any company and I can't wait until I get employees to do all the work for me. My business has nothing to do with real estate, I could care less that he didn't say, "Buy property X for $80,000 and rent it out for $500/month". He taught me to have assets that work for ME.

Overall I'm very glad I read it. It was motivational like nothing I'd ever read before. Maybe you knew all of the above but many many people don't.