Brian Griese to start next week

[Billy Bibbit]

John Henry was a steel drivin' man.

[Jack of Arcades]

I never said anything about Mike Shanahan or Terrell Davis, though.

There is a clear split in Elway's stats - 83-92 and 92-98.

[MacGuyV]

This was inevitable but whatever - I don't think the Bears are any better than the Vikings right now.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Even when Elway didn't always play the best, there was no better QB to have needing a game-winning drive late.

He could be having a horrible game. But get down to 3 minutes left, down by 6 - and it was like he would just wake up out of a fog and start flinging the ball all over the field with laser accuracy. You could see him perk up in his body language. Some QBs get scared in those spots, Elway got jacked-up. It almost seemed like he needed to create a challenge for himself. Like just playing against an NFL defense wasn't stimulating his juices enough. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Question: Who has the most failed 4th quarter comebacks? Honest question, I don't KNOW that its Elway but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[West]

[ QUOTE ]
I never said anything about Mike Shanahan or Terrell Davis, though.

There is a clear split in Elway's stats - 83-92 and 92-98.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right - under Dan Reeves, and not under Dan Reeves. What's your point?

[anatta]

I read Shanahan taught Elway to tuck in his teeth before he threw the ball. Yeah, here are some real tiny photos of Elway in action:

Elway at Stanford v UCLA: [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Elway v Green Bay in Super Bowl: [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[West]

[ QUOTE ]
Question: Who has the most failed 4th quarter comebacks? Honest question, I don't KNOW that its Elway but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what?? All the Broncos games you've watched??

I did a quick google search and ran across this article which actually tries to look at successful vs failed 4th quarter comebacks, defining them as any game where a team trailed by 8 points or less and had the ball, at some point in the 4th quarter. Thing is, their numbers only go back to 1996. So they missed most of Elway's career. But a couple quotes from the article:

"Tom Brady is next on the list and, remember, these numbers do include the postseason. Brady is one of only a handful of quarterbacks with a winning record in more than three games with a fourth-quarter deficit. The others are Marc Bulger (10-5), Ben Roethlisberger (7-2), Steve Young (7-4) and John Elway (7-6). Bulger, who ranks eighth by this metric, is the only one in that group that has yet to win a Super Bowl.

(Elway holds the NFL record for fourth-quarter comebacks with 47, but this study only includes the final three years of his career.)"

and

"Full Results
162 quarterbacks have had at least one fourth-quarter comeback opportunity since 1996. There are 24 instances in which two quarterbacks saw action in a failed comeback game, usually due to injury or ineffectiveness of the primary quarterback.

Based on t-tests, 21 quarterbacks have been significantly “good” at fourth-quarter comebacks since 1996 and 18 quarterbacks have been significantly “not good” by the same test (all at the .95 level). The top 10 and bottom 10 are listed above in Table 1 and Table 2. Here are the others:

Significantly good: Aaron Brooks, Tim Couch, Trent Green, Kent Graham, Steve Young, Ben Roethlisberger, John Elway, Kordell Stewart, Daunte Culpepper, Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon.

[Pudge714]

I know this thread is offtopic right now, but I was looking at DPAR so far this year and the difference between Rex Grossman and Jay Cutler is about the same as the difference between Jay Cutler and Tom Brady.

[MacGuyV]

I don't think Brady has ever come from behind in the postseason.

Harbaugh used to have the nickname "Captain Comeback" so that's weird.

Edit: Brady 1 time with the *

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Question: Who has the most failed 4th quarter comebacks? Honest question, I don't KNOW that its Elway but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what?? All the Broncos games you've watched??

I did a quick google search and ran across this article which actually tries to look at successful vs failed 4th quarter comebacks, defining them as any game where a team trailed by 8 points or less and had the ball, at some point in the 4th quarter. Thing is, their numbers only go back to 1996. So they missed most of Elway's career. But a couple quotes from the article:

"Tom Brady is next on the list and, remember, these numbers do include the postseason. Brady is one of only a handful of quarterbacks with a winning record in more than three games with a fourth-quarter deficit. The others are Marc Bulger (10-5), Ben Roethlisberger (7-2), Steve Young (7-4) and John Elway (7-6). Bulger, who ranks eighth by this metric, is the only one in that group that has yet to win a Super Bowl.

(Elway holds the NFL record for fourth-quarter comebacks with 47, but this study only includes the final three years of his career.)"

and

"Full Results
162 quarterbacks have had at least one fourth-quarter comeback opportunity since 1996. There are 24 instances in which two quarterbacks saw action in a failed comeback game, usually due to injury or ineffectiveness of the primary quarterback.

Based on t-tests, 21 quarterbacks have been significantly “good” at fourth-quarter comebacks since 1996 and 18 quarterbacks have been significantly “not good” by the same test (all at the .95 level). The top 10 and bottom 10 are listed above in Table 1 and Table 2. Here are the others:

Significantly good: Aaron Brooks, Tim Couch, Trent Green, Kent Graham, Steve Young, Ben Roethlisberger, John Elway, Kordell Stewart, Daunte Culpepper, Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon.

Significantly bad: Neil O’Donnell, Doug Flutie, Frank Reich (yes, the same Frank Reich who led the greatest postseason comeback in NFL history in 1992, prior to this study), Gus Frerotte, David Carr, Jim Harbaugh, Matt Hasselbeck, Billy Joe Tolliver. "

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, not based on that at all. I just said it wouldn't surprise me btw, not sure why you are on high alert (3 ?'s? Really?) The thing that leads me to believe he might have the most failed 4th quarter comebacks is...wait for it...the fact that he has the most successful 4th quarter comebacks. Since I don't really believe in clutch (or at least, I feel it is ridiculously exaggerated and probably does exist but is a minor impact) it seems reasonable to believe that the guy who has the most 4th quarter comebacks was the guy who was down in the 4th quarter the most often. This would mean he has a good chance of having the most failed comebacks too. Sort of like Cy Young, know what I mean?

It is really funny (and awesome) to me that Daunte Culpepper is on the significalty good list. I'm a ridiculously huge DC fan (like super biased and its sort of embarrassing) and one of the biggest knocks on him in MN was that he couldn't lead comebacks and he crumbled under pressure. I thought that was ridiculous and didn't match up with anything I saw watching him, but hey, what do I know?

I'd be interested to see the methodology here, maybe I'll try to look into it.

EDIT: From your article [ QUOTE ]
Over the past decade, no quarterback has had more fourth-quarter comebacks than Drew Bledsoe. Then again, no quarterback has had more fourth-quarter comeback opportunities than Bledsoe.

[/ QUOTE ]
Stuff like that.