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#81
12-27-2006, 09:56 PM
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Re: how often should i be doing this?
[ QUOTE ]
i'd be shocked if anyone can find one hand history where the bb 4bet bluffs in the spot in OP. [/ QUOTE ] I have none 200BB deep. FullTiltPoker Game #1008713609: Table Larson (6 max) - $10/$20 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:36:11 ET - 2006/09/16 Seat 1: G6Dragon ($2,322) Seat 2: bounce11 ($2,536) Seat 3: jimbotim ($1,013) Seat 4: Munchi ($2,044), is sitting out Seat 5: Mark Vos ($1,988) Seat 6: Jamougha ($2,651.85) Mark Vos posts the small blind of $10 Jamougha posts the big blind of $20 G6Dragon: sometimes yes The button is in seat #3 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Jamougha [Ah 3s] G6Dragon folds bounce11 folds jimbotim folds Mark Vos raises to $60 Jamougha calls $40 *** FLOP *** [5s Qh 2s] SECATIKOP (Observer): nice, GL Mark Vos bets $90 Jamougha raises to $311 Mark Vos raises to $700 G6Dragon: ty Jamougha has 15 seconds left to act Jamougha raises to $2,591.85, and is all in Mark Vos has 15 seconds left to act Mark Vos folds Uncalled bet of $1,891.85 returned to Jamougha Jamougha mucks Jamougha wins the pot ($1,517) *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $1,520 | Rake $3 Board: [5s Qh 2s] Seat 1: G6Dragon didn't bet (folded) Seat 2: bounce11 didn't bet (folded) Seat 3: jimbotim (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 4: Munchi is sitting out Seat 5: Mark Vos (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 6: Jamougha (big blind) collected ($1,517), mucked 
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#83
12-27-2006, 10:03 PM
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Re: how often should i be doing this?
And one not by me;
FullTiltPoker Game #1082861526: Table Butternut (6 max) - $10/$20 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:19:49 ET - 2006/10/09 Seat 1: MrJensen ($1,970) Seat 2: The Riparian ($2,100) Seat 3: truestthoughts ($1,970) Seat 4: fish4rice ($3,882) Seat 5: Jamougha ($6,418) Seat 6: ahnuld ($2,237) Jamougha posts the small blind of $10 ahnuld posts the big blind of $20 The button is in seat #4 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Jamougha [Kc Qs] MrJensen folds The Riparian folds truestthoughts folds fish4rice folds Jamougha raises to $60 ahnuld calls $40 *** FLOP *** [Qh 5d Qc] Jamougha bets $120 ahnuld raises to $360 Jamougha raises to $999 The Riparian: oops ahnuld raises to $2,177, and is all in Jamougha calls $1,178 ahnuld shows [6c 5c] Jamougha shows [Kc Qs] *** TURN *** [Qh 5d Qc] [3d] *** RIVER *** [Qh 5d Qc 3d] [8s] ahnuld shows two pair, Queens and Fives Jamougha shows three of a kind, Queens Jamougha wins the pot ($4,471) with three of a kind, Queens ahnuld: opps imdeed ahnuld is sitting out *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $4,474 | Rake $3 Board: [Qh 5d Qc 3d 8s] Seat 1: MrJensen didn't bet (folded) Seat 2: The Riparian didn't bet (folded) Seat 3: truestthoughts didn't bet (folded) Seat 4: fish4rice (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 5: Jamougha (small blind) showed [Kc Qs] and won ($4,471) with three of a kind, Queens Seat 6: ahnuld (big blind) showed [6c 5c] and lost with two pair, Queens and Fives
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#84
12-27-2006, 10:03 PM
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Re: how often should i be doing this?
I think 3-balling this flop on a bluff creates a whole new dynamic between the two thinking players that supports the better handreader of the two if they both are willing to battle it out with frequent bluff-raises and re-steals. I know BLd used to make a [censored] of small 3-bets in spots like this, and then sometimes play 400xBB pots with one pair when he caught his opponent out of line.
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#85
12-27-2006, 10:23 PM
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Re: how often should i be doing this?
jeeeez dont do this without an out! Listen to Doyle.
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#86
12-27-2006, 10:36 PM
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Re: how often should i be doing this?
[ QUOTE ]
I think 3-balling this flop on a bluff creates a whole new dynamic between the two thinking players that supports the better handreader of the two if they both are willing to battle it out with frequent bluff-raises and re-steals. I know BLd used to make a [censored] of small 3-bets in spots like this, and then sometimes play 400xBB pots with one pair when he caught his opponent out of line. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, and beyond that, Villain in BB should be raising with one pair hands, as well as air, as well as sets, and so on. TWP is either losing money by not playing back enough, or losing money by not exploiting his opponent's TAGgishness when he's in the BB in this spot.
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#87
12-27-2006, 10:40 PM
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Re: how often should i be doing this?
mostly grunching.
you could at least do it with j9 or 79 on this board. i mean wtf. you cant rebluff every time you think hes bluffing, only a certain % of those times. and if you're rebluffing oesds and gutshots you're probably rebluffing too much. so at least align the certain % of the time that you rebluff when you have better equity! there is no reason to choose a gutshot+backdoor over an oesd.
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#88
12-28-2006, 12:32 AM
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Re: how often should i be doing this?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think 3-balling this flop on a bluff creates a whole new dynamic between the two thinking players that supports the better handreader of the two if they both are willing to battle it out with frequent bluff-raises and re-steals. I know BLd used to make a [censored] of small 3-bets in spots like this, and then sometimes play 400xBB pots with one pair when he caught his opponent out of line. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, and beyond that, Villain in BB should be raising with one pair hands, as well as air, as well as sets, and so on. TWP is either losing money by not playing back enough, or losing money by not exploiting his opponent's TAGgishness when he's in the BB in this spot. [/ QUOTE ] or I'm knowing the importance of position and folding this trash preflop while destroying the 'TAGs' that raise this trash in the SB when I'm in the BB and who will then pull BS like this 3-bet on this dry flop?
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#90
12-28-2006, 12:46 AM
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Re: how often should i be doing this?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think 3-balling this flop on a bluff creates a whole new dynamic between the two thinking players that supports the better handreader of the two if they both are willing to battle it out with frequent bluff-raises and re-steals. I know BLd used to make a [censored] of small 3-bets in spots like this, and then sometimes play 400xBB pots with one pair when he caught his opponent out of line. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, and beyond that, Villain in BB should be raising with one pair hands, as well as air, as well as sets, and so on. TWP is either losing money by not playing back enough, or losing money by not exploiting his opponent's TAGgishness when he's in the BB in this spot. [/ QUOTE ] or I'm knowing the importance of position and folding this trash preflop while destroying the 'TAGs' that raise this trash in the SB when I'm in the BB and who will then pull BS like this 3-bet on this dry flop? [/ QUOTE ] That's right - the very few times you get a set, you will be crushed. If you play as straightforward as you say in blind battles, you are giving away money to players who will be outplaying you. There are plenty of fancy-playing bluff-machines out there, but even those guys can smell a nit.
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