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#81
02-17-2007, 02:07 PM
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Re: 2nd hand story: Phil Laak $70k angle-shoot
I would call this unethical play in tournament poker. In cash games, it goes imo.
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#82
02-17-2007, 02:09 PM
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Re: 2nd hand story: Phil Laak $70k angle-shoot
[ QUOTE ]
this is definitely angle shooting. surprised to see that some normally smart posters don't get it. [/ QUOTE ] QFT. The thing that makes it angle shooting is involving the dealer in the deception. If Laak just makes the bet and doesn't state his intentions, or say anything about the bet, it's just a head game. Ditto if he acts like it was an accident but doesn't request help from an official (the dealer). When you "try" to get a rule bent, it becomes unethical, because it's not a given that they will not bend it. They shouldn't, of course, but that doesn't mean it would never happen. aba's play obv isn't the same.
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#83
02-17-2007, 02:24 PM
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Re: 2nd hand story: Phil Laak $70k angle-shoot
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#85
02-17-2007, 03:09 PM
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Re: 2nd hand story: Phil Laak $70k angle-shoot
[ QUOTE ]
yeah, if it went down the second way it was described then it's fine. [/ QUOTE ] I agree, but do you think the situation might depend on which chips were used? Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm obviously referring to the possible presence of Bellagio Flags... Like, for instance, let's say he puts in the stack of Commerce Flags and says "ho-hum, now I wish I had just called" it would look a lot different than if he put out 20 Bellagio chips and then said, "Oops, I meant to put in a stack of Commerce $100s to just-call." In the interests of wild speculation, it's a relevant detail.
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#86
02-17-2007, 03:32 PM
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Re: 2nd hand story: Phil Laak $70k angle-shoot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] phil says he has "3 in chips,3 in bills ($6000)" then it turned out that he had 5k in bills, not 3 like he said. [/ QUOTE ] Is that enforceable? Stacks of bills aren't visibly easy to count by others like chips, I think you should only have to pay him 6k if he indeed said he had 3k in cash. [/ QUOTE ] I agree, and this isn't even angling, it's corruption. They're playing table stakes, and there's more than a reasonable expectation that your opponents are reporting their approximate stacksizes accurately. If Phil had said, "3 in chips, 3...maybe 5 in bills" then it's obv AJ's responsibility to ascertain the exact amount. There's a good story from a Commerce NL game last year involving an indeterminate amount of cash, maybe I'll tell it later.
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#87
02-17-2007, 03:34 PM
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Re: 2nd hand story: Phil Laak $70k angle-shoot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] then its unethical for a player to capitalize on that accident by calling. [/ QUOTE ] pretty good point. The story reminds me of something that I think Felicia Lee related a few years ago. I'm going off memory here so might mess this up. I think it was at some place where they had a strict rule that if you just said "all-in" you were committed to it. So some guy is taking advantage of this and nails anybody who mumbles, "I'm thinking of going all-in here" or something like that. He points out the rule and they are forced all-in. So Felicia gets sick of this guy. The guy bets. Felicia gets AA pre-flop or something. And mumbles some sentence designed to get the guy to do this again like, "one of these times I'm going to get a good hand and put you all-in." Then, when the guy predictably goes off about it just like always, she goes into a big protest that she didn't mean it, what's his freaking problem, etc etc. She's really playing up being upset that she was forced all-in if I remember the story correctly. So he calls Felicia's all-in and loses the hand to her AA and then gets pretty ticked that Felicia essntially out-angled him. [/ QUOTE ] ahah thats a classic, and ya the 70k is not to bad imo he doesnt have to call and what happend to to the good days of old west guys doing stuff like this all the time. It's not to bad to sometimes angel shot but nothing to much, I mean it's a part of poker everyone has done it at some point I think.
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#89
02-17-2007, 03:50 PM
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Re: 2nd hand story: Phil Laak $70k angle-shoot
I think Laak is going to get his ass seriously kicked one of these days.
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#90
02-17-2007, 04:03 PM
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Re: 2nd hand story: Phil Laak $70k angle-shoot
[ QUOTE ]
Comparing this angleshoot and that aba/Ivey hand is like apples to potatoes. [/ QUOTE ] i was also high when i posted in this thread bottom line on laak's play is - would you do it yourself? if you did, would you feel ashamed/guilty afterwards?
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