NL Bots on Full Tilt

[BluffTHIS!]

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Posters here have to believe *all* of the following to be true to believe nlnut and your vouching of him:

1) he isn't botting even only part-time;
2) he isn't running a sweatshop and lying about it;
3) the stats are being mis-interpreted by all who think otherwise;
4) 4 players really can play virtually identically post-flop over 100K hands and a system can account for all post-flop situations;
5) 4 players can execute such a system to 99% precision;
6) FT is actually competent in making botting determinations;
7) nlnut isn't deceiving you in any way.


That's a 7-team parlay and it only pays 3-1. Anyone who wants to bet on it is welcome to.

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DW,

Re my 7-team parlay above, can I put you down for a bet at the stated 3-1 odds?

[MinRaise]

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Let's say for the sake of argument that there is a super detailed "playbook" out there that all of these people are executing. You would think nlnut would be willing to provide some sort of evidence this exists.

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And how do I do this without giving you the strategy. How can I do this? please advise.

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How about this? You don't have to give away any of the system. Just tell me what your training process is. To get the data so close, you must have to go through some training. Surely one of your "friends" is naturally a 18/10 player or something like that. What is the process for getting at least four people to conform so perfectly to this system. Plus, if one of you was a winning player of a different style before this current setup, why convert to a nit? Why not just keep playing your style from before?

There just really is no way you could get this kind of uniformity to a written playbook in my opinion.

[BrandonJoseph47]

BluffTHIS! you are a joke beyond any equivication. "There is a LIE there somewhere." Right? Please? Your conspiricy theories have no merit whatsoever, and yet you can't help but be a jerk to anyone with a differing point of view. You are well spoken, and a good speller, but you are not as smart as you think you are..Cheers.

[Triumph36]

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the problem is that he shouldn't post his playbook to 2p2

games have a lot of 2p2ers and we can think at a deep enough level to exploit the hell out of a playbook

hell, this thread is already a disaster for them given the street by street and position stats of their playbook

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c'mon, the playbook is completely meaningless and any NL player worth a damn could come up with it on their own - it's the fact that these players simply don't tilt and don't deviate at all from it that makes it work. i mean really, here, i'll give you the playbook.

raise AQ+/99+ PF, call pocket pairs and some connectors

cont bet 100% of the time, regardless of flop

post-flop: get all in with an overpair, get all in with a set, get all in with a combo draw (e.g. overcards/flush draw, straight draw/flush draw).

there's some finer points which would need to be ironed out, but this is not some brilliant plan.

if you want to make $40,000 a year having no soul, it's there for the taking, and it's always been there

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Tri- HU4rolls, me vs your "system on a notepad" let us gooo

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boy i wonder who would win that one.

of course the most curious part of this is that ostensibly, their playbook allows for the possibility of bots - but I believe they are not bots themselves. I wonder how much input the supervisor has - it should be enough to make the post-flop statisics more divergent than they are, IMO - (esp WRT WTSD, for example).

[nlnut]

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kudos to nlnut for coming on to defend himself. but come on. it's so obvious when someone is tap-dancing around the facts.

[/ QUOTE ] example please?

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For the third time:

1) How many players in this ring? 3
2) How many accounts? 3
3) Why did it take so long to adjust to the OP targetting them if they're discussing all these hands in real time? (as opposed to just following a script, or they're a bot, neither of which would make any adjustments until over-ridden) ........cant discuss since its part of our strategy
4) Why did simple decisions take so long? Much longer than it takes real 12-tablers? (Unless they're just following a script and they have to look up the next move. Or waiting for a program to tell them what to do next. Or that's just how long the bot takes to respond.)..... tending to action at another table....or were discussing a bet amount or slow playing a monster by not acting right away.

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[Triumph36]

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Let's say for the sake of argument that there is a super detailed "playbook" out there that all of these people are executing. You would think nlnut would be willing to provide some sort of evidence this exists.

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And how do I do this without giving you the strategy. How can I do this? please advise.

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How about this? You don't have to give away any of the system. Just tell me what your training process is. To get the data so close, you must have to go through some training. Surely one of your "friends" is naturally a 18/10 player or something like that. What is the process for getting at least four people to conform so perfectly to this system. Plus, if one of you was a winning player of a different style before this current setup, why convert to a nit? Why not just keep playing your style from before?

There just really is no way you could get this kind of uniformity to a written playbook in my opinion.

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it would not be hard to come up with a way of having the preflop numbers agree - not hard at all.

to one raise, call/raise these exact hands and no others - allowing for certain hands in certain positions (haven't really looked over the numbers, don't know if there's any serious deviations)

to two raises, call/raise these exact hands and no others

follow these things exactly. how hard is that? you're looking at it from the perspective of a guy playing a game, not a guy doing a job. if your job included cleaning out certain machines in an exact way, you'd do that. if your job was to run oats in a straight line at 5:30 AM each morning, you'd do that. if your job included not playing KQo to a raise in late position, you'd fold it.

[derosnec]

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the problem is that he shouldn't post his playbook to 2p2

games have a lot of 2p2ers and we can think at a deep enough level to exploit the hell out of a playbook

hell, this thread is already a disaster for them given the street by street and position stats of their playbook

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c'mon, the playbook is completely meaningless and any NL player worth a damn could come up with it on their own - it's the fact that these players simply don't tilt and don't deviate at all from it that makes it work. i mean really, here, i'll give you the playbook.

raise AQ+/99+ PF, call pocket pairs and some connectors

cont bet 100% of the time, regardless of flop

post-flop: get all in with an overpair, get all in with a set, get all in with a combo draw (e.g. overcards/flush draw, straight draw/flush draw).

there's some finer points which would need to be ironed out, but this is not some brilliant plan.

if you want to make $40,000 a year having no soul, it's there for the taking, and it's always been there

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probably an oversight on your part, but you left out range merging

[nlnut]

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the problem is that he shouldn't post his playbook to 2p2

games have a lot of 2p2ers and we can think at a deep enough level to exploit the hell out of a playbook

hell, this thread is already a disaster for them given the street by street and position stats of their playbook

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My point is I'm pretty sure this playbook exists in the form of a computer program. The stats are too close for this not to be the case.

If this is not the case, I would like to hear what the process is for getting several people to play EXACTLY the same game.

[/ QUOTE ] the same way a surgeon learns to operate on very critical/microscopic parts of the human body......teach, practice, teach, practice

[ianisakson]

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nlnut,

Please confirm or deny that there is a computer program/script that is giving plays to the players on these accounts.

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[Boquense]

A couple things that really worry me in no particular order...

1. Nation going out of his way to insinuate that Chuck is a complete novice with computers and as it turns out, this is far from the truth.

2. OP's claim that the 3-4 accounts logged off simultaneously as soon as he signed in to FTP, as opposed to actually sitting at their tables.

3. Overall inconsistencies and evolution of stories. (IE group of friends getting together to play poker and splitting profits----> dude running sweatshop.)

4. Even with a very simple strategy and such a low VPIP, it just really doesn't make sense for these guys to play poker so methodically and equivalently, over countless hundreds of thousands of hands, and only earn 1.5bb/100 at low stakes without desiring to tweak the system in minor ways to improve winrates.

Those are just a couple off the top of my head. I'm not saying the whole sweatshop thing isn't possible, but I guess as a poker player I've trained myself to put stories together, and this just really doesn't add up.