New Fight Question

[johnnyrocket]

seals cant do that

[Dr. Strangelove]

I would be surprised if out of 6 billion people you couldn't find someone who could kick fedor's ass.

[RoyBoy]

The answer is clearly the Navy Seal. So what if Seals are also or even mostly trained in weapons. Seals are trained to kill men. And not just trained by anybody either. They are trained by the most experienced killing machine in the history of the world.

The others are trained to "fight" men.

If you don't think a Seal can kill you in hand to hand combat you're just crazy.

[seemorenuts]

Let's see, MMAs and Seals study lot of things, but streetfighters are by definition illiterate and unmotivated...

You'd have to believe the above not to give the 200,000,000 plus streetfighters credit for studying MMA, their lives depend on it!

I realize anecdotal evidence has limited value, but I'd like to share with you a story told to me by one of my buddies who's had several sifus and loves fighting because he's an existentialist (or the other way around, I dunno).

Some guy on the street called him a ch*nk 15 years ago, so he grabbed the guy by the balls with one hand and the trachea with the other hand.

The victim was yelping, "he grabbed my balls! He grabbed my balls!"

Lol, and then there's the newspaper story I read every 5 years about some tiny old chinese man on a bike being attacked by 5 or 6 huge guys, and he beats them all up...
that's for you asian martial arts fans...

The streetfighter wins, Bayesian. Next question, let's stop the suffering.

[Hoi Polloi]

I would rank them as follows:

Chuck Norris

[jogger08152]

I kind of agree. I think the best streetfighter was probably Ryu, and I don't see how Fedor could deal with the dragon uppercut. As soon as he shoots, he's on his ass and potentially stunned.

[paddymcg21]

Gotta be the martial arts master! I mean when Bruce Lee was alive can you imagine anyone even touching the guy?? Theyd lose their arm before they laid a finger on him.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
The Navy Seal would win, having actually been trained to kill people in the most efficient way possible.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, that's why the use guns and explosives. Think about it this way. Do you think that the UFC/Martial artists are teaching the SEALs H2H or vice versa? While not the SEALs, this article does show that the combat programs taught to various branches are compilations of various martial arts. I don't think anyone could honestly dispute that the SEALs spend less time on hand-to-hand combat. I also think that many people wouldn't object with the fact that a SEAL doesn't have to be trained to win the UFC, just take out an untrained terrorist/enemy soldier and they will likely have many weapons (main rifle, claymores, grenades, sidearm, knife, any other weapons he might happen to carry) before he'd need to resort to his fists.

How can people still be arguing for the SEAL after all these posts? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[jogger08152]

Assuming the individual fights are 1-on-1 (rather than a battle royale of all 5 at once), I believe the characteristics that will most strongly influence the outcome are (in no particular order):

1. Skill at applying deadly techniques
1a. Skill at applying stunning techniques.
1b. Skill at applying crippling/incapacitating techniques.
2. Endurance/conditioning.
3. Psychology.
4. Physical strength/athleticism.
5. "Ground skills" (note, however, that this will include a number of techniques that are not in use in MMA, EG fishhooking, gouging, manual strangulation, biting, etc)
6. Intelligence
7. Cheating
8. Experience in dangerous fights

Analysis follows:

1. Availability of and ability at applying deadly techniques.
Analysis: I would expect this to be reasonably important, almost certainly trumping categories 2, 4, and possibly 5, depending upon what positions the techniques can be applied from.
Who has the edge: Most likely the Asian martial artist has a big edge unless he is a muay thai type, followed by the streetfighter (who will be behind the MA because he will know less theory and thus have fewer techniques despite his greater experience at fighting (unless we suppose that he has somehow gained a great deal of first hand expertise in killing people in street fights, yet has somehow avoided prison), then the SEAL (who will be in third place but quite a bit behind the AMA because most of his death-dealing arsenal will involve weapons, and some of his empty-handed technique will assume surprise), then the MMA and boxer.

1a. Stunning techniques
Analysis: if you stun the other guy, you can find a way to kill him. In effect, this is of similar importance to the first category.
Who has the edge: the boxer, the MMA, the AMA (if he is of a type who tries to stun, EG a muay thai artist), and the streetfighter will all do well at this, probably in that order, though I would think they would all be fairly close in ability here, unlike in 1. above. I suspect the boxer would be pretty far ahead of all the others (unless the AMA was a muay thai type), and the SEAL would be pretty far behind everyone else here.

1b. Application of incapacitating/crippling techniques.
Analysis: similar to 1 and 1a above.
Who has the edge: most likely the MMA and AMA are in the lead here, in that order. The Streetfighter should be next, then the SEAL, then the Boxer. The gaps would be pretty large between all but the 1st and 2nd guys.

2. Endurance/conditioning
Analysis: probably not all that important; since the fights are to the death (and therefore, deadly techniques will be applied), they likely won't last long enough for this to play a major role. Of course the importance of endurance increases as the fight progresses.
Who has the edge: The first order of business is to figure out the various populations from which our fighters will be drawn. I'd guess it looks like this:
1. AMA: tens of millions, possibly 100 million (this includes AMA's in non-Asian countries)
2. Streetfighter: hundreds of thousands or millions
3. Military (unless SEAL means -specifically- "US Navy SEAL", in which case this would fall to 4th): several hundred thousand
4. Boxer: several hundred thousand
5. MMA: several tens of thousands

This would be the expected order of rankings, except that the boxer, the SEAL, and (to the least extent - sorry fanboys) the MMA have specific training in endurance. Given this training, I would guess the correct order of ranking would be:
Seal, AMA/Boxer, MMA/Streetfighter.

3. Psychology
Analysis: vital, but impossible to determine who has the lead. This encompasses willingness/ability to kill the other guy without qualm, taking a shot whenever the opportunity arises; having the heart/guts to fight all-out; having a lot to lose (the guy with a beautiful wife and three hungry kids); etc.
Who has the edge: All else being equal, the SEAL, then the Streetfighter; but given the above, it could be anybody.

4. Strength/Athleticism:
Analysis: Importance varies depending upon the techniques the fighter will use, the length of the fight, etc. I'd rank this as moderately important overall.
Who has the edge: Most likely one of SEAL/Boxer/MMA would have the lead, with the other two in 2nd and 3rd place, followed by the Streetfighter and AMA in no particular order.

5. Ground skills (including "dirty" techniques)
Analysis: an important ability since fights tend to end on the ground, assuming no surprise killing/crippling/stunning technique eliminates one of the two fighters early.
Who has the edge: I would guess the AMA (if not of the Muay Thai variety, especially if he is an animal/kung fu practicioner), then MMA (who takes first if the AMA is a pure stand-up type), then the Streetfighter, then SEAL, then Boxer. The last two would be far behind the first three.

6. Intelligence
Analysis: Intelligence will tend to be reflected in the other skills, as well as planning the fight ahead of the time, adapting to his opponents, etc. Overall importance will be moderate to low.
Who has the edge: Bayes, per the above: AMA, SEAL, Streetfighter, Boxer, MMA - however, the MMA will probably edge the boxer in practical terms, since the boxer will have the least ability to adapt to the other styles.

7. Cheating
Analysis: possibly the most important category of all and certainly the wild card. If anybody manages to smuggle in a weapon (a roll of dimes, a handful of finely ground cayenne pepper, poison, etc), he's got a big, maybe insurmountable edge.
Who has the edge: almost certainly the Streetfighter or the SEAL, then maybe the boxer, then the other two in no particular order. The SEAL and SF will probably gain the most advantage if they kites in a weapon successfully too. They have a huge edge here.

8. Experience in dangerous fights.
Analysis: moderately important, unless one of them has had a number of fights to the death and the others haven't, in which case it could become very important.
Who has the edge: Could be anybody, but the MMA or boxer is most likely in the back.

So who wins?
Obviously, psychology is important and somewhat unpredictable. However, given what we do know, I would rank 'em as follows:

1. AMA - Mostly Bayesian reasoning, coupled with his probable advantages in the killing/stunning/crippling, though he is less of a favorite if he is a muay thai type. Lack of experience, especially if one or more of the others has had several melee-to-the-death type fights, could also hurt him.
2. Streetfighter - Bayes, plus I like his expected stunning/crippling prowess and the advantage he gains when he cheats
3. SEAL - mostly Bayesian (note I'm assuming he doesn't have to be specifically a SEAL; I'm simply taking the best Mossad, Spetznaz, SAS, SEAL, etc), plus he's going to have a pretty strong edge over all but the boxer in strength and conditioning, and will have the psychological edge as well, all things being equal. His lack of technique will hurt him, but he should make up for that some of the time with intelligence and/or cheating.
4. MMA - despite his Bayesian disadvantage, his technique will be 2nd most useful overall (behind non muay thai AMA).
5. Boxer - conditioning helps, but vulnerability to leg kicks, takedowns/ground game, and lack of knowledge of killing/crippling technique will hurt him. Despite being in last place, his knockout power might save him against the SEAL or the Streetfighter. He's in bad trouble against the AMA and MMA though.

Best regards,
Jogger

PS - if I were your collective bookie, I'd of course rank the MMA first and enjoy my win as I raked in the fanboy dough...

[cognito20]

Good analysis, jogger. That having been said, I would like to make a point that I haven't seen made in this thread much. Remember, we're talking about the -best- of each of these fighters in the world. If the world heavyweight boxing champion lands a head shot on any of these people, it's game over...their opponent is going down and they're not getting back up. World-class boxers are also masters at -avoiding- getting hit, a skill of theirs that is highly underrated. The martial artists aren't going be able to take the boxer to ground if they're never able to lay a hand or foot on him. I'm not saying that the boxer would necessarily be the winner, but I think he'd do a lot better than many people in this thread would give him credit for. The power of a punch thrown by a top-class heavyweight boxer is overwhelming. There's a good reason they're legally required to register their hands as lethal weapons in most states. They need to avoid being taken to ground by the martial artists (at least if that martial artist is still conscious when he hits the ground after the boxer lands his blow) at all costs, but other than that I see no huge disadvantage for them. It's not as easy as you think to land a blow on a heavyweight champion who doesn't want to be hit.