Chris Benoit and Wife found dead

[yoyoyo]

[quote
arnold was 23 when he won mr. olympia for the first time.

[/ QUOTE ]

and your point? you have no idea when arnold started using drugs. he was trainging with already established bodybuilders as a teenager in europe and had been under weiders guidance for 2 years before winning the olympia.

you have to remember, these drugs were legal and considered safe back then. theres no telling when he actually started.

but there are plenty of guys that have done everything correctly without the drugs for long periods of time, and no one has ever come close to arnolds appearance.

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
[quote
arnold was 23 when he won mr. olympia for the first time.

[/ QUOTE ]

and your point? you have no idea when arnold started using drugs. he was trainging with already established bodybuilders as a teenager in europe and had been under weiders guidance for 2 years before winning the olympia.

you have to remember, these drugs were legal and considered safe back then. theres no telling when he actually started.

but there are plenty of guys that have done everything correctly without the drugs for long periods of time, and no one has ever come close to arnolds appearance.

[/ QUOTE ]


theres a reason for that and its because arnold and franco were doing the exact same things for roughly just as long while using drugs that were legal and considered safe at the time.




if he won at the age of 23, he wasnt doing it "roughly as long" as a decade while using sdrugs, unless he started at 13, which imo, is highly improbable.

[esad]

[ QUOTE ]
meh, gym rat anecdotes just have no credibility. the difference between 1. people 2. training for a specific sport/bodybuilding 3. dedication is just so different that just becasue someone is in the gym all the time doesnt mean they actually know what they are doing.

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I guess you missed the part where I said that my assertion that guy's that look like that are on the juice was based on first hand knowledge.

Nice deflection though. Keep the denial train rolling.

[ QUOTE ]
You would be suprised what proper diet and training can do for someone. I'm 5'11", 230, 19 y/o @ about 13% BF. I bench 405, deadlift 655, and squat 505. I've never touched more than whey protein, creatine, and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots...and lots*n^oo...of food.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post a pic of yourself then. Let's see what the steroid free super cut body looks like.

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
meh, gym rat anecdotes just have no credibility. the difference between 1. people 2. training for a specific sport/bodybuilding 3. dedication is just so different that just becasue someone is in the gym all the time doesnt mean they actually know what they are doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you missed the part where I said that my assertion that guy's that look like that are on the juice was based on first hand knowledge.

Nice deflection though. Keep the denial train rolling.

[ QUOTE ]
You would be suprised what proper diet and training can do for someone. I'm 5'11", 230, 19 y/o @ about 13% BF. I bench 405, deadlift 655, and squat 505. I've never touched more than whey protein, creatine, and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots...and lots*n^oo...of food.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post a pic of yourself then. Let's see what the steroid free super cut body looks like.

[/ QUOTE ]


my point was that just becuase you are in the gym a lot doesnt mean you know what you are doing. Yes, I have no doubt the guys that looked like benoit were on the juice, but that is a really retarded point to make, and Im not disuputing it. most people dont have the knowledge/TIME/dedication to look like him naturally. keep the lack of reading comprehension train rolling, and keep making excuses for yourself.


You demonstrate your futher stupidity, and ego when trying to pick on this kid, because if you could take your head out of your ass youd realize the guy never said he was ripped, just that he was at 13% bf.



"And yoyoyo, I recently had an electrostatic BF test and it came out at ~13% (+/- like .5%, I don't remember the number off the top of my head). 13% isn't super ripped, nor is it fat."



I mean, wtf, how dumb are you?

[spyderracing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
meh, gym rat anecdotes just have no credibility. the difference between 1. people 2. training for a specific sport/bodybuilding 3. dedication is just so different that just becasue someone is in the gym all the time doesnt mean they actually know what they are doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you missed the part where I said that my assertion that guy's that look like that are on the juice was based on first hand knowledge.

Nice deflection though. Keep the denial train rolling.

[ QUOTE ]
You would be suprised what proper diet and training can do for someone. I'm 5'11", 230, 19 y/o @ about 13% BF. I bench 405, deadlift 655, and squat 505. I've never touched more than whey protein, creatine, and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots...and lots*n^oo...of food.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post a pic of yourself then. Let's see what the steroid free super cut body looks like.

[/ QUOTE ]
A) I'm not denying the guy used, infact im 99.99999999999% sure he did.
B) 13% is not super cut, nor do I claim it to be. Sub-10 = super cut. Here is a thread from the H&F forum w/ pics:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

[spyderracing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
meh, gym rat anecdotes just have no credibility. the difference between 1. people 2. training for a specific sport/bodybuilding 3. dedication is just so different that just becasue someone is in the gym all the time doesnt mean they actually know what they are doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you missed the part where I said that my assertion that guy's that look like that are on the juice was based on first hand knowledge.

Nice deflection though. Keep the denial train rolling.

[ QUOTE ]
You would be suprised what proper diet and training can do for someone. I'm 5'11", 230, 19 y/o @ about 13% BF. I bench 405, deadlift 655, and squat 505. I've never touched more than whey protein, creatine, and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots...and lots*n^oo...of food.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post a pic of yourself then. Let's see what the steroid free super cut body looks like.

[/ QUOTE ]


my point was that just becuase you are in the gym a lot doesnt mean you know what you are doing. Yes, I have no doubt the guys that looked like benoit were on the juice, but that is a really retarded point to make, and Im not disuputing it. most people dont have the knowledge/TIME/dedication to look like him naturally. keep the lack of reading comprehension train rolling, and keep making excuses for yourself.


You demonstrate your futher stupidity, and ego when trying to pick on this kid, because if you could take your head out of your ass youd realize the guy never said he was ripped, just that he was at 13% bf.



"And yoyoyo, I recently had an electrostatic BF test and it came out at ~13% (+/- like .5%, I don't remember the number off the top of my head). 13% isn't super ripped, nor is it fat."



I mean, wtf, how dumb are you?

[/ QUOTE ] Haha I don't need the defense, but thanks anyways. And you're right, I see guys in the gym everyday who never make any progress and have the worst programs imaginable. Anyone see the correlation.

[yoyoyo]

[ QUOTE ]
if he won at the age of 23, he wasnt doing it "roughly as long" as a decade while using sdrugs, unless he started at 13, which imo, is highly improbable.

[/ QUOTE ]

so in present day, with all the advances in training and nutrition knowledge compared to arnold and franco's day, coupled with the fact that many many times more guys are into bodybuilding now than then, dont you think it says something about the drugs capabilities when no one without the use of those drugs has been able to reproduce what arnold and franco did?

even in todays biggest natural bodybuilding shows where its almost an understood fact that the guys winning arent natural, just "clean", they dont compare to an arnold or a franco.

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if he won at the age of 23, he wasnt doing it "roughly as long" as a decade while using sdrugs, unless he started at 13, which imo, is highly improbable.

[/ QUOTE ]

so in present day, with all the advances in training and nutrition knowledge compared to arnold and franco's day, coupled with the fact that many many times more guys are into bodybuilding now than then, dont you think it says something about the drugs capabilities when no one without the use of those drugs has been able to reproduce what arnold and franco did?

even in todays biggest natural bodybuilding shows where its almost an understood fact that the guys winning arent natural, just "clean", they dont compare to an arnold or a franco.

[/ QUOTE ]

here is my take:

its a different era, no one wants to put in the time and dedication, and honestly enough for 99% of the population it really isnt worth it, and it IS a waste of time to do it "naturally" if your goal is to compete. But imo, if you take a 14 year old kid, just hitting puberty, he hits teh gym hard for a 13 or 14 years, has great genetics, you could have something comparable to arnold, drug free (but obv, this isnt practical).

[spyderracing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if he won at the age of 23, he wasnt doing it "roughly as long" as a decade while using sdrugs, unless he started at 13, which imo, is highly improbable.

[/ QUOTE ]

so in present day, with all the advances in training and nutrition knowledge compared to arnold and franco's day, coupled with the fact that many many times more guys are into bodybuilding now than then, dont you think it says something about the drugs capabilities when no one without the use of those drugs has been able to reproduce what arnold and franco did?

even in todays biggest natural bodybuilding shows where its almost an understood fact that the guys winning arent natural, just "clean", they dont compare to an arnold or a franco.

[/ QUOTE ] I haven't read that anyone is disputing this. If you want to be Arnold or Ronnie Coleman you better have a pharmacy in your house.

[esad]

[ QUOTE ]
my point was that just becuase you are in the gym a lot doesnt mean you know what you are doing. Yes, I have no doubt the guys that looked like benoit were on the juice, but that is a really retarded point to make, and Im not disuputing it. most people dont have the knowledge/TIME/dedication to look like him naturally. keep the lack of reading comprehension train rolling, and keep making excuses for yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? My point was that people who look like Benoit are pretty much 100% of the time on the juice. It doesn't mean that they don't work out, it just means they use everything that science can provide to get as big and cut looking as possible.

[ QUOTE ]
You demonstrate your futher stupidity, and ego when trying to pick on this kid, because if you could take your head out of your ass youd realize the guy never said he was ripped, just that he was at 13% bf.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I wasn't picking on him. Second, he proved my point. He works out a lot and eats right and he looks good, but he doesn't look like Benoit or these other steroid guys.

Finally, are you sure you're not telling us something guids? Your posts are starting to have to "rage" quality to them. Com'on you can come clean [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]