Burden of proof

[Nielsio]

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You don't believe representative democracy is a possibility?

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I don't think it holds up to moral scrutiny. So that's why I put out the challenge. Are you going to give it a try?

[CORed]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Whether one believes government to be good, a necessary evil, or an unnecessary evil, I think, unless you radically change human nature, it is inevitible. If a government were to abolish itself, and try to institute anarcho capitalism (or some other form of anarchy), I think one of two things would happen. Either a nation-state would move in and annex the territory of the government that abolished itself, or the business with the strongest security forces would take over and assume the role of government. As long as a significant fraction of human beings desire power over other human beings, government of some sort is inevitable. The best we can hope for is to make it as benign as possible.

[Hoi Polloi]

1. Nothing exists except people and my absolutist moral principles.

FYP

[Hoi Polloi]

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In fact, he must admit that, on the basis of any universal principles, the welfare state is immoral, since if it is wrong for anyone to steal, then it is also wrong for everyone to steal – including politicians!

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How do you justify the equivalency between the "welfare state" and stealing? Seems somewhat simple minded and biased on behalf of your argument.

[DrewDevil]

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You don't have to consent to drive 55, and you don't have to consent to pay taxes. But you do have to do it, or face the consequences. The constitution lists some inalienable rights, but not contributing a fair share to the protection of those rights is not listed. Majority rule is a bitch, but everything else has proven to be worse.


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Okay, this is just flat wrong, and an insane twisting of the Constitution and what it stands for.

The U.S. Constitution clearly states that citizens shall not be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law. Taxation, whether or not it be theft, is absolutely a deprivation of property without due process. That is why the Constitution had to be AMENDED to support a federal income tax 90 years ago.

And you said "not contributing to blah blah blah is not among the rights listed." Do you really believe that any right not specifically enumerated in the C. is not a right? Well, even if you do, you are forgetting the Bill of Rights, which says that all rights not set forth in the C. are reserved to the states, or the people.

Majority rule is a bitch, which is why the Constitution was written to protect individual liberties against the tyranny of the majority. Seriously, have you ever read the Constitution? It is not about majority rules, but about the protection of individual rights FROM the majority.

Sheesh.