I 5-bet light lol - Page 8

NoahSD · #71 08-24-2007, 04:09 PM

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Nobody folds AK in this spot. I don't think the play is that bad with JJ, and its better than 76s here.

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I don't know which spot you're talking about, but both OP, OR, 3-bettor, and 4-bettor should fold AK in this spot without flinching. I'd fold QQ too in any of their spots and I'd fold KK if I were the OR or the 3-bettor.

pokeriseasy · #72 08-24-2007, 04:16 PM

4bettor should not fold AK, UTG and 3bettor should let AK go, but not the 4bettor. If he folds AK it's because he puts your range solely on AA.

This would be better if you were in the BB and CO opened, button 3bet and SB 4bet, but with this being an UTG open I don't like it. Just muck.

Bukem_ · #73 08-24-2007, 04:21 PM

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1) UTG opens wide
2) CO 3bets wide
3) BTN 4bets wide

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this is totally ridic.

all 3 players can have good wide opening ranges, and 3 betting ranges. But most of the 3 betting is going to happen when they are in steal positions-blinds. sure co may be capable of 3 betting an utg raiser with 87s, but for the most part he will tend to be VERY strong when 3 betting an utg raiser.

And button may even be capable of 4 betting as a bluff when sitting in bb vs two lags who are going at it in co/btn or btn/sb, though this is really stretching it.

But none of this means that button should be or is 4 betting as a bluff vs a guy who is 3betting a good solid utg raiser.

and 5 betting ALL of them as a bluff is just mind blowing spew.

NoahSD · #74 08-24-2007, 04:22 PM

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If he folds AK it's because he puts your range solely on AA.

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It's really annoying when people say [censored] like this.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.123% 22.60% 00.52% 9288900 213750.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 76.877% 76.36% 00.52% 31378896 213750.00 { KK+ }

Hell, it's even close if he thinks AK is in your range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.246% 13.34% 26.91% 13700916 27647358.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 59.754% 32.84% 26.91% 33742608 27647358.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }

pokeriseasy · #75 08-24-2007, 04:40 PM

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If he folds AK it's because he puts your range solely on AA.

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It's really annoying when people say [censored] like this.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.123% 22.60% 00.52% 9288900 213750.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 76.877% 76.36% 00.52% 31378896 213750.00 { KK+ }

Hell, it's even close if he thinks AK is in your range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.246% 13.34% 26.91% 13700916 27647358.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 59.754% 32.84% 26.91% 33742608 27647358.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }

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I meant to change it to he should only fold AK if he puts OP on KK or AA. And even if the range is just KK and AA it's a horrible call.

And if we had AK to OPs range it's a call there is $90 in the pot and it's $137 to call. And then when you factor in other possible hands like a QQ, JJ, TT or maybe a total bluff which has to factor in to 5-10% of OPs range, it's an even easier call for the 4bettor w/AK. Putting OPs range on just AKo, AKs and KK+ is obviously wrong considering he made this push with JJ, and you can never discount the possibility of somebody doing something as a bluff.

bilbo-san · #76 08-24-2007, 04:44 PM

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lol @table selection.

Suicide.

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Oh should have added: MP is a huge fish, the reason we're all here.

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If table conditions are such that this is a 5-bet and not a fold, then you guys are all [censored] tools.

Seriously, keep waving your dicks around pre-flop instead of just letting the fish take a [censored] flop.

What is WRONG with you people?!?

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Dude, I'm chillin' at 20/13 and folding my Blinds to steals 90% of them time. The fish can take as many flops as they want against me. This was a crazy spot, I don't think Ive ever been in a position like this before. Party 200NL isn't exactly infested with 25/20's. I do my best to avoid tough aggressive players, but this fish was massive.

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My point is that if you really are all there for this fish, you shouldn't all be re-popping any 2 card all the time, and if you keep doing it, the fish is going to leave to go to a table where he can see a flop, and you guys will all be left with your hard-ons in your hands.

bilbo-san · #77 08-24-2007, 04:47 PM

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If he folds AK it's because he puts your range solely on AA.

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It's really annoying when people say [censored] like this.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.123% 22.60% 00.52% 9288900 213750.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 76.877% 76.36% 00.52% 31378896 213750.00 { KK+ }

Hell, it's even close if he thinks AK is in your range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.246% 13.34% 26.91% 13700916 27647358.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 59.754% 32.84% 26.91% 33742608 27647358.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }

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Button is getting 2:1. For him, folding KK here is pretty bad getting those odds.

NoahSD · #78 08-24-2007, 04:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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If he folds AK it's because he puts your range solely on AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really annoying when people say [censored] like this.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.123% 22.60% 00.52% 9288900 213750.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 76.877% 76.36% 00.52% 31378896 213750.00 { KK+ }

Hell, it's even close if he thinks AK is in your range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.246% 13.34% 26.91% 13700916 27647358.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 59.754% 32.84% 26.91% 33742608 27647358.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }

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I meant to change it to he should only fold AK if he puts OP on KK or AA. And even if the range is just KK and AA it's a horrible call.

And if we had AK to OPs range it's a call there is $90 in the pot and it's $137 to call. And then when you factor in other possible hands like a QQ, JJ, TT or maybe a total bluff which has to factor in to 5-10% of OPs range, it's an even easier call for the 4bettor w/AK. Putting OPs range on just AKo, AKs and KK+ is obviously wrong considering he made this push with JJ, and you can never discount the possibility of somebody doing something as a bluff.

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I definitely can discount it. I can consider it but discount it.

Hince · #79 08-24-2007, 05:00 PM

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lol @table selection.

Suicide.

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Oh should have added: MP is a huge fish, the reason we're all here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If table conditions are such that this is a 5-bet and not a fold, then you guys are all [censored] tools.

Seriously, keep waving your dicks around pre-flop instead of just letting the fish take a [censored] flop.

What is WRONG with you people?!?

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Dude, I'm chillin' at 20/13 and folding my Blinds to steals 90% of them time. The fish can take as many flops as they want against me. This was a crazy spot, I don't think Ive ever been in a position like this before. Party 200NL isn't exactly infested with 25/20's. I do my best to avoid tough aggressive players, but this fish was massive.

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My point is that if you really are all there for this fish, you shouldn't all be re-popping any 2 card all the time, and if you keep doing it, the fish is going to leave to go to a table where he can see a flop, and you guys will all be left with your hard-ons in your hands.

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I love this post.