bellagio 10-20 700bb deep: 2nd-nut boat facing 4-bet - Page 8

xker17x · #71 08-21-2007, 05:42 AM

liking the minraise is being results oriented i think i dont see how anyone couldn tjust auto shove

fslexcduck · #72 08-21-2007, 09:00 AM

i mean i guess you realize this mike, but not shoving once he bets 2k into a 13k pot with 6k behind and you have the second nuts is like getting out of your chair, walking over to the nearest incinerator, and dumping in a bucket of cash. except instead of cash it would be EV. I don't know if EV comes in buckets though, so the analogy would have to end there...

MYNAMEIZGREG · #73 08-21-2007, 12:39 PM

I feel like this hand plays itself out if the player is capable of 4bet bluffing the turn AND making big laydowns...

FireStorm · #74 08-21-2007, 01:29 PM

You gave a fairly lengthy and detailed breakdown of Villains style in the OP. However, I'm curious, had you seen any SPECIFIC hands from this guy previously with this type of action? If he's willing to slam 98 this hard in this spot, and you've seen other hands played in this fashion in addition to the 98, then this would be a shove 100% of the time.

Pudge714 · #75 08-21-2007, 01:30 PM

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i mean i guess you realize this mike, but not shoving once he bets 2k into a 13k pot with 6k behind and you have the second nuts is like getting out of your chair, walking over to the nearest incinerator, and dumping in a bucket of cash. except instead of cash it would be EV. I don't know if EV comes in buckets though, so the analogy would have to end there...

[/ QUOTE ]

Does cash come in buckets?

cero_z · #76 08-21-2007, 03:16 PM

Hey Mike,

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anyway, turns out i got max value, but that's being results-oriented obviously. nonetheless, i still think flatcalling the turn is best, because most players in live games WILL fold worse hands to an 8k-more push there.

i'm sure he would've folded AJ or a straight to a turn shove, and maybe even 77. (i should've included in the op an earlier hand we played, where i bet-3bet the river all-in on a board of Ad Td 3x, 8x, 8d and he folded the nut flush face-up. so he's capable of making laydowns.) the only hand he would've called with is 88. and of course he folds all bluffs and semibluffs.

river was a shove but i got confused and i'm a wuss as many of you know. and at least i got to see his cards.

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Your thinking is all [censored] up in this post, especially in the 2nd sentence quoted. How can you be sure that a player who played this wildly with a bluff-catcher would've folded 7s full? No [censored] way virtually anyone folds 7s full there, including, dare I say, you. Lots of people say they would fold hands like that there, but almost no one can (and it's not clear that they should). Hell, I've seen players in that Bellagio game call off bets like that with OVERPAIRS, and I'd assume you have, too, given how much more time you've spent in it than me. The turn was a shove, but it was somewhat close, and the river was a not-close shove. Congrats on getting unstuck though; that's a big-ass pot.

cero_z · #77 08-21-2007, 03:19 PM

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when he makes that obvious shiit bet, he does not have a boat and probably not even a hand that can call anything or a marginalish hand... i nkow this is supremely gay but anyone wanna minraise this river for value and call shove duh? nobody plays J8 like that on the river 2k into 13. i think u can be pretty certain u have the best hand.

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Yes. Solid alternative to shoving, but I think you have to already have pegged the guy as super-wild and suicidal before it's better than just shoving. Just like they get ridic with a bluff there sometimes, they go sicko with a hero call when they realize it's like 6k more in a 23k pot.

mikech · #78 08-21-2007, 03:24 PM

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How can you be sure that a player who played this wildly with a bluff-catcher would've folded 7s full?

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cero, i never said i'm sure he would've folded 77, i said maybe he would even fold 77. but that's exactly one combination. he certainly (yes, i'm SURE) folds AJ or 9T, given the earlier hand i mentioned (before he ran his stack up big, he only had about 5k at the time) where he folded the nut flush on a paired board when i put him all-in.

mikech · #79 08-21-2007, 03:26 PM

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had you seen any SPECIFIC hands from this guy previously with this type of action?

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not even close.

flawless_victory · #80 08-21-2007, 03:28 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
How can you be sure that a player who played this wildly with a bluff-catcher would've folded 7s full?

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cero, i never said i'm sure he would've folded 77, i said maybe he would even fold 77. but that's exactly one combination. he certainly (yes, i'm SURE) folds AJ or 9T, given the earlier hand i mentioned (before he ran his stack up big, he only had about 5k at the time) where he folded the nut flush on a paired board when i put him all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]if that previous hand is all u have comtributing to this read than that is just horrible horrible horrible