Micro Stakes Limit Holdem (almost dissertation)

[RemyXO]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I was posting some brutal results in NC from my switch to FTP for the past few days. To recoup, I am -95BB over 1000 hands. Some of it can be attributed to brutally cold deck (e.g. AK 24 times, won 2 - blinds only), but I have a feeling that something is fundamentally wrong. Call it "online game has changed", or whatever you want - it ain't right anymore. Before you flame me, hear me out. It's up the tl;dr alley, I guess, but oh well.

(1) Fishies have left the building
Attribute it to the fristing of the country, or to people getting smarter and reading books, there are heck of a lot less bad players online. I remember Party 2 years ago - this ain't even close.

(2) Games are tight. I mean TIGHT!
Finding a table with over 30% to the flop is a pain in the a$$. If there are a couple, there are 5 TAGs in line for it. Even if the action is OK when you sit down, it quickly goes to hell as soon as a couple of aggro TAGs rotate in. You need to be table-hopping non-stop, essentially. PS is better than FTP, but not by much.

(3) People are aggressive. I mean AGGRESSIVE!
It's pretty common to have an average of 10% PFR on the table. Which means every darn hand is raised and reraised. You sit with AQo on the button, it's 3 bets to you - what do you do?? Blind stealing starts from MP3, if he's first in. Defending them is a pain, as you'll have to pay all the way to river to see if your hand is good. Folding it means they will just be stealing more.
I am looking at PT stats on the tables - 70% are SLAA (the worst to play against), 20% solid money-bag TAGs. Once in a while a maniac or a fishie come around and get killed pretty fast.
Check-raising the PF raiser on the flop or the turn with air (or nuts) is standard. People have C/R percentages in high teens!!! AF >> 3 has become normal!

(4) No more limping
Limping has become a huge no-no. Your ass will be raised 90% of the time. It's raise or fold. So you raise with ATs in MP and get three-bet. Miss the flop and fold. Fun.

(5) Pocket pais and draws
Playing small pocket pairs becomes -EV. You'll get raised if you limp, and won't make enough back if you hit a set. If you raise, some SLAA will call you and bet the crap out of you on any board that doesn't give you a set.
Draws become hugely expensive. Again, you usually have to pay 2 bets to play any suited hand, and the flops get raised and reraised, killing your odds. I think I drew to one flush over that 1000 hands.

(6) AK and big pocket hands
I know, I know, i don't have enough sample size on FTP and getting beat 24 out of 26 is normal variance. But hands like AK (and even TT, JJ, QQ, KK) become very difficult to play when facing superaggression.
Typical scenario - raise w AK get 3-bet, cap, to the flop HU. AK does not improve, c-bet gets check-raised, you fold (or peel off and then fold). People notice. Or QQ when overcards fall or the board is bad (lots of times) - do I really want to pay 5BB to see if my middle pair is good?
3-bet with TT on the button, 3 people to the flop and it's 2 bets to you on the flop UI with an overcard. You fold and curse.
You fold - people notice and start making plays at you with air. And yes, they do pay attention nowadays.

All in all, I am getting lost in these semi-tight super-aggressive games. No, not lost - I am getting my ass handed to me. Looking for thoughts and advice. Is it time to lay off SSHE and start on Ciaffone's MLHE? Fricking 1/2 plays like 40/80 live! Or is it time to move to NL or MTT or SNG or PLO or Razz, for God's sakes? Limit became unprofitable?

Let me address some of your anticipated toughts right away:

- This is just variance, it will get better!
- You are pissed off because you are running bad!
No, I strongly feel that the game has changed, and I need adjustments

- Don't play at these tight aggro tables!
As I said, that's the vast majority of them at .5/1 and .25/.50 levels PokerStars are a bit better, but still. Good games with >40% V$IP don't last long, TAGs swarm them.

- Drop down a level!
Ummmm ... not really interested. I've been playing .50/1 for two years, with a sprinkle of .25/.50 here and there. I want to move up, not down. And I can't even stay at the current level! Playing .10/.20 by SSHE is pointless - yeah, i can beat soft games, but earning .40 per hour? SNGs sound heck of a lot better.

- 1000 hands is to small a sample to draw conclusions
Agreed. I can play 5000 more and bleed money at the same level - would that make my argument better?

- You are losing because you suck at poker
Yes, at THIS type of poker I suck badly. I used to run juuuuust fine at loose passive games. Thanks, [censored] Senator Frist.

- AK is an awesome hand, you donkey
I know.

Regards,
RemyXO

[nerdking]

it's time to quit crying. if you think an aggro player is being too aggro postflop, call him down with what you think is a reasonable holding. blindsteal. work the weak-tighties, take a chance. first thing I wonder if it's 3 to me on OTB with AQ is "who's raising"

get a bigger sample size. I was in the same boat you are back in december when I first hit .50/1+ but I adapted and I'm still making money.

[BigBadBabar]

first thing i wonder when it's 3 to me with aq is what's happening on the other tables since i checked the fold button

[00Snitch]

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I was posting some brutal results


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Honestly didn't read after this. Might read it when I'm bored.

No offence intended.

[Bad Beat Maker]

From the little bit of limit I've played on FTP I saw that it was just fine really. Are you playing during time of day/night when most of the American's are off line and sleeping? I know this might not be possible to people with jobs or seeking an education, but if it IS possible try to change your sleep cycle to rotate around when the games are juiciest at whatever stakes you play (this is for the very dedicated and those who really want to move up through crushing even the semi-loose games). I have friends that did this for NL on FTP by staying off late night games (or should I say 7AM games) and playing more in the afternoon games and into the evening and stopping around 1 or 2AM.

Hope this helps SOMEHOW.
BBM

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
raise w AK get 3-bet, cap, to the flop HU

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't cap AK if you're afraid of getting bluffed off the best hand postflop. Call with AK, and call with big pairs to balance.

[RemyXO]

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first thing i wonder when it's 3 to me with aq is what's happening on the other tables since i checked the fold button

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Yep. Indeed. And going by normal cold-calling standards in these games I find myself playing "Phil's top ten hands".

[RemyXO]

[ QUOTE ]
it's time to quit crying. if you think an aggro player is being too aggro postflop, call him down with what you think is a reasonable holding. blindsteal. work the weak-tighties, take a chance. first thing I wonder if it's 3 to me on OTB with AQ is "who's raising"

get a bigger sample size. I was in the same boat you are back in december when I first hit .50/1+ but I adapted and I'm still making money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not crying, NK, I am trying to figure out what the problem is with my game. This is what the forum is for, right? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Does it sound like BBV post?

[KitCloudkicker]

call down more with AK/AQ UI and middle PP's

raise more turns for free SD's

play middle pocket pairs more aggressively and raise more turns for free SD's with them

check raise the turn more

LRR more

did i forget something?

[jack21221]

I found some juicy games over the weekend at PS at 1/2. Try playing on Saturday and Sunday evening to find the soft games.

Also, I've found that I can beat many of the TAGs out there, because they're often pretty straightforward. I've seen some of them 8-tabling (when there are only 9 tables to begin with), and they don't have time to be very tricky.

Additionally, many of the tight players are fold-monkeys when it comes to big pots. Not all of them, but a good portion of them. Remember, folding also boosts the AF number.

So yes, I agree that the online limit game has changed, but I don't think it's unbeatable. You may no longer beat it for 4bb/hour, but you can beat it for maybe 2 at the 1/2 level.