Casino Gambling Web Representatives Headed to Washington!

[Uglyowl]

OBG,

Awesome response!

[TheEngineer]

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I mean take FoF's points and deconstruct them. Im familiar with the land division of the promise land. I guess Im saying it would make my day if we saw these guys embarassed on national TV for lying about the Bible/fallaciously restating things for political gain.

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Seems that would move the argument onto their turf. I think we should keep it on ours...freedom, free will, and rights as Americans. With regard to their arguments, I guess we could simply say:

"If banning gambling were important to God, why doesn't the Bible say, 'thou shalt not gamble'? Seems God would have put something in there if He were concerned about this. Perhaps you oppose this because YOU PERSONALLY don't like it." Then, watch them stammer.

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To expand further, I think OBG's reply is right on. I can't imagine wanting to debate the Bible with fundamentalist preachers when we can stick to issues of freedom and hypocrisy.

[meleader2]

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I mean take FoF's points and deconstruct them. Im familiar with the land division of the promise land. I guess Im saying it would make my day if we saw these guys embarassed on national TV for lying about the Bible/fallaciously restating things for political gain.

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Seems that would move the argument onto their turf. I think we should keep it on ours...freedom, free will, and rights as Americans. With regard to their arguments, I guess we could simply say:

"If banning gambling were important to God, why doesn't the Bible say, 'thou shalt not gamble'? Seems God would have put something in there if He were concerned about this. Perhaps you oppose this because YOU PERSONALLY don't like it." Then, watch them stammer.

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To expand further, I think OBG's reply is right on. I can't imagine wanting to debate the Bible with fundamentalist preachers when we can stick to issues of freedom and hypocrisy.

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...or...you could simply say "separation of church and state"

/debate.

[TheEngineer]

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...or...you could simply say "separation of church and state"

/debate.

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They don't believe in such a separation. Or, more accurately, they believe it's a one-way separation preventing government from regulating Christian churches.

They actually embrace the idea that church should be a large part of "state".

[TheEngineer]

The petition just hit 6,000. Great job everyone. Hopefully this 20% increase in signatures will help CGW in their visit to Washington.

[Ron Burgundy]

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I mean take FoF's points and deconstruct them. Im familiar with the land division of the promise land. I guess Im saying it would make my day if we saw these guys embarassed on national TV for lying about the Bible/fallaciously restating things for political gain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems that would move the argument onto their turf. I think we should keep it on ours...freedom, free will, and rights as Americans. With regard to their arguments, I guess we could simply say:

"If banning gambling were important to God, why doesn't the Bible say, 'thou shalt not gamble'? Seems God would have put something in there if He were concerned about this. Perhaps you oppose this because YOU PERSONALLY don't like it." Then, watch them stammer.

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I don't think that's an effective response. It's still moving the argument onto their turf. If I were from FOF and I heard that, I would just come up with some twisted interpretation of something in the Bible that would suggest God said gambling is wrong. Since gambling isn't as important of an issue as murder or cheating on your wife, gambling didn't need to be one of the ten commandments.

If one were to get involved in a public debate with someone from FOF, the best thing to say is that you believe it's wrong for them to impose their religious beliefs onto others, and leave it at that. You have to remember that the majority of people listening are not going to be religious fanatics who only want to know what the Bible says and act accordingly. Most people just want to know what's best for society and their personal liberty.

[TheEngineer]

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Received an answer of sorts today from my FoF e-mails as follows:.....

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I received a reply from them today:

Thank you, ******, for contacting Focus on the Family.

We appreciate the time you took to offer your personal insights on the controversial issue of gambling. In response, what some people don't realize is that the pragmatic downside to gambling, including poker, is serious. The hard facts indicate that legalized gambling is responsible for a host of social ills (a suggestion that can be validated by looking at virtually any area where gambling has been introduced on a widespread basis). Take Atlantic City, for example, where from 1976 to 1992 the community’s police budget tripled to $24 million while the local population decreased by 20 percent. And despite spending $59 million yearly to monitor casinos, during the first three years of casino operation Atlantic City jumped from 50th to 1st on the nation’s per capita crime chart! Even more disturbing is the astronomical price tag associated with the costs of “cleaning up the mess” left in gambling’s wake. John Kindt, Ph.D., professor of commerce and legal policy at the University of Illinois, asserts that for every one dollar of revenue generated by gambling, taxpayers must dish out at least three dollars in increased criminal justice costs, social-welfare expenses, high regulatory costs, and increased infrastructure expenditures.

In addition, gambling can quite literally have a devastating effect on individuals. Millions of Americans now have a compulsive gambling problem, which not only causes great personal financial hardship for the gambler, but also disrupts and, in some cases, destroys families. Countless studies show a direct link between legalized gambling and gambling addictions, as well as drug and alcohol abuse and suicide.

On another note, if it be contended that Dr. Dobson wants to “legislate morality,” or that we are attempting to force individuals to conform to our idea of what constitutes godly behavior, we respond that nothing could be further from the truth. But Dr. Dobson believes that a nation which recognizes no transcendent standard of accountability is headed for moral bankruptcy and social chaos. All laws place restraints upon human behavior by declaring one act socially acceptable and another unacceptable. To that extent laws are statements about morality. We can’t avoid “legislating morality,” then. The question is, whose morality will be legislated? To what standard do we appeal in seeking a rationale for our laws? As Chuck Colson writes in his book, _Kingdoms in Conflict_, “Without transcendent norms, laws are either established by the social elites or are merely bargains struck by competing forces in society ... laws rooted in moral absolutes do not vacillate with public taste or the whim of fashion.”

Again, thanks for writing. We hope this response has clarified our perspective. God bless you.

Amy Campbell
Focus on the Family


Customer 07/04/2007 08:05 PM

I’m writing to let you know many Americans find your organization’s outspoken (and often inaccurate to the point of being deceitful) advocacy of banning Internet poker offensive, particularly FoF’s assertion that the American people need the federal government to act as their nanny. Americans are capable of making their own decisions. We don’t need a bigger federal government to do that for us. Actually, we need a smaller one. After all, the power you give government today is the power they’ll use against us tomorrow.

For example, do you feel safe in saying the IRS could never revoke a church's tax exempt status for refusing to hire a gay pastor? Do you feel safe in saying the IRS could never revoke a church's tax exempt status for preaching that homosexuality is a sin? If you answered "yes, that cannot happen", are you certain that couldn't come to pass within ten years? And, why shouldn't it? YOU decided government should involve itself in issues of morality, and many Americans do think discrimination against gays is immoral. That's the power you're advocating giving government today!!! After all, YOU said the American people are incapable of making their own decisions. YOU said government should have a role. And, YOU condemned yourself to this outcome by chasing limited-government conservatives like me from the Republican Party, assuring the party of minority status.

I urge you to let this one go. Support limited government. Support regulation over prohibition. Fiscal conservatism plus government out of your life = true conservatism. Government control of one’s life = statism.

Sincerely,

[WorkinGuy09]

Dear Focus On The Family,

Why do you feel you have the right to tell me what I can and can not do. Does it make you feel important or special. Religion is an internal belief not a political weapon. I love all your "studies", for God loving people you sure do lie a lot. Here is a study, Religion is ruining the world, all major wars have been fought over your pushiness. Sure Religion has murdered billions, but now you take a stand on playing a backgammon like game on the internet. You people need to concentrate on your own problems and leave me alone! Talk about preying on the weak, you all prey on the weak minded, I am sure you guys put all those "donations to good use". You sir/maddam are a thief, steal from the weak and shove your beliefs down my throaght. Who do you think you are, I will tell you;
You are an individual who can not cut it in the real world who must follow something which gives you a sense of superiority because frankly you are inferior or you would not have been caught up in the black magic. Thankyou for looking out for the 100,000 people with gambling problems becuase I am sure not being able to play poker on the internet will solve there addiction issues, get a clue!
Sincerely,
A Regular Citizen

[Richas]

Who wants to let them know that God won it for Yang?

I suspect they will not be happy!

[fleece_me]

"And despite spending $59 million yearly to monitor casinos, during the first three years of casino operation Atlantic City jumped from 50th to 1st on the nation’s per capita crime chart!"

Of course crime went up, there are more people there now to rob and burglar. If they built disneyworld or a mall there, the same thing would of happened.

The increased jobs and tax revenues are a boom to the local municipalities, including the police force.

None of their arguments work, I don't care what God you do or don't believe in.