What's your opinion on Michael Moore?

[Aloysius]

MrMon - cool link, thanks.

Diablo - see!? Haha... well, perhaps I'm not giving enough credit to people and they're actually doing their own diligence, but there's a perceived authenticity to Moore's documentaries that's dangerous if he's not sticking to the facts.

Also I think the bigger issue is that he adds fuel to the fire of his critics with his strong bias supported by what turns out to be factual errors.

I think Michael Moore is probably a pretty smart guy who knows exactly what he's doing and is purposefully antagonistic to get a point across... but is that really the best way to have a meaningful dialogue and prove the other side wrong?

I think his documentaries, if they truly resided in the entertainment realm, wouldn't engender these concerns on my part.

-Al

[PITTM]

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but I don't understand the idea of going to Cuba, and holding up their communist health care system as an idea to emmulate. How many world leaders travel to Cuba for treatment?

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im pretty sure that medical care for foreign dignitary VIPs in America is like>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>medical care average American receives, so this example is pretty poor.

[FoldYourLife]

He's the left's version of Ann Coulter. Both have diarrhea of the mouth. He might have good intentions, but most of the crap that comes out of his mouth is just ridiculous.

[Eagles]

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Since hardly any of the haters is an expert on the field (or have done any research for that matter) , and the real experts in the field, keep awarding him prize after prize; they don't seem to care about Michael's supposedly dishonest methods.


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I haven't read the whole thread yet but this is awful logic. Justin Morneau was voted MVP of the American League by a panel of "experts" even though basically all objective measurements would show he isn't even the MVP of his own team.

[Eagles]

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part of what he does, stunt-wise, is obviously just meant to be funny (driving an ice cream truck around Washington and reading the Patriot Act), but some of it is pretty effective, i think (asking Congressmen if they would sign their kids up for Iraq)

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I think the congressmen thing was pretty dumb. I don't feel like looking the exact numbers right now, but a small percentage of congressmen have children eligible for service. This would be a much more valid complaint if there was a draft nobody is forcing people to join the military.

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you completely missed the whole point of that segment.

it's irrelevent whether or not they have kids in the military or kids the right age for the military or if there's a draft or not.

it was pretty obvious from their reactions that they would never consider making the sacrifice they were asking the American people to make. And that was a pretty damning point. do you think they would have reacted the same way at the outset of WW2? of course not.

the point being, Congress wasn't really behind the Iraq War, but they were voting for it. that's not good.

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I wish I could find a link for this. But Moore asks a congressman if he would sign up his son or daughter for Iraq . The congressman says that he already has a son in Iraq but Moore does not show the clip.

[MrMon]

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part of what he does, stunt-wise, is obviously just meant to be funny (driving an ice cream truck around Washington and reading the Patriot Act), but some of it is pretty effective, i think (asking Congressmen if they would sign their kids up for Iraq)

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I think the congressmen thing was pretty dumb. I don't feel like looking the exact numbers right now, but a small percentage of congressmen have children eligible for service. This would be a much more valid complaint if there was a draft nobody is forcing people to join the military.

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you completely missed the whole point of that segment.

it's irrelevent whether or not they have kids in the military or kids the right age for the military or if there's a draft or not.

it was pretty obvious from their reactions that they would never consider making the sacrifice they were asking the American people to make. And that was a pretty damning point. do you think they would have reacted the same way at the outset of WW2? of course not.

the point being, Congress wasn't really behind the Iraq War, but they were voting for it. that's not good.

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I wish I could find a link for this. But Moore asks a congressman if he would sign up his son or daughter for Iraq . The congressman says that he already has a son in Iraq but Moore does not show the clip.

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A quick search turns up that 10 members of Congress have had a son or daughter serve in Iraq, so obviously he didn't try too hard.

Along the same line, footage has turned up of him actually having a lengthy exchange with Roger Smith in May 1987 at the GM shareholders meeting, something he didn't film or ever mention. Kinda shoots his whole premise in the foot. Obviously a fraud from the start as far as facts go.

[Dids]

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He's the left's version of Ann Coulter. Both have diarrhea of the mouth. He might have good intentions, but most of the crap that comes out of his mouth is just ridiculous.

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This comparision gets made a lot, and even though I'm not a fan of Moore in the least, it's not fair to him at all.

I think Moore's got a good heart and just tends to be misguided kinda dumb about it at times.

Coulter is just a hatefull troll (in the message board analogy sense, I'm reasonably sure she doesn't live under a bridge). She's not trying to educate anybody, she's just there to take potshots at people.

[guids]

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Private companies shouldn't have an obligation to keep people employeed. It's government's job to sustain them once a company, in holding to the obligation it has towards it's owners/shareholds has to lay them off to save/make more money.



Thats pretty commie.

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The definition of lefty is pretty different in the US than here in Europe, but believing in a basic welfare system, in this instance the government paying a minimal unemployment benefit (?) is commie?

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Anything that doesn't agree with the republicans is commie.

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Im not a republican, and am probably about 100 times more leftwing than any dem when it comes to personal privacy, and my rights as a citizen. Welfare is commie imo.

[guids]

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I think you're getting worked up over nothing here.

There was a claim made that people criticize Moore because his documentaries aren't really documentaries in that they are biased. The rebuttal was that the "experts" [in film] implicitly disagree because they keep awarding him in documentary categories. Your response to this was: What Experts? Hollywood. I don't know who else you'd expect, but okay. Now, you seem just confused when you write:

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Not to mention the fact taht Im sure that documentary filmmakers arent the most unbiased people around.

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Exactly -- documentary aren't (nor are they supposed to be) unbiased. We agree --- the criticism of Moore being a bad documentarian (or not a documentarian at all) because his films are biased is stupid.

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When debating politics, what the [censored] does it matter what a filmmaker thinks?

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It doesn't matter what he thinks. Nobody cares what he says because he is Michael Moore (nobody says "well if Michael Moore believes it to be true....") However, because he is a filmaker he can bring out a discussion on issues and/or raise awareness.

Michael Moore's role in political discussions is no different than a columnist in a paper/magazine or an editorial board.

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Movies, Television. based on or re-creating an actual event, era, life story, etc., that purports to be factually accurate and contains no fictional elements: a documentary life of Gandhi.





You are very confused on what the meaning of documentary is.

[Dids]

Could we stop confusing commie (bad) with socialism (good, but sucks when applied in the real word because people are poo heads).