FLORIDA ALLOWING POKER GAME STAKES TO BE RAISED IN JULY!

[1p0kerboy]

So are we expecting to see a 2/5 structure?

What do you think the blinds will be for the no-limit game?

[NY60]

If I recall the last time the laws were changed to allow the $2 limit, the Seminoles only waited until the Governor signed the bill into law and therefore did not wait until the effective date of July 1st which is when all newly enacted legilation takes effect in Florida. If so I think we can see games sooner than the July 1st effective date.

[PokerAmateur4]

The hardrock was open 24 hours before for poker sngs, yes? Does this bill make it so that now it's only 12 hours?? Or was cash games only open some lesser amount of time?

Also are the 1050-1100 games now gone? That's what someone above said this bill indicates? $800 max?

What's going on, if someone can clear up how this affects hardrock MTT and STT I would appreciate it very much.

[PokerAmateur4]

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The key is the increase in tourney stakes. Games will now be very much worthwhile.

[/ QUOTE ]I thought it reduces it, someone said it brings it down from unlimited to $800.

[Atomic]

The two Hard Rocks have always run 24 hours even though the pari-mutuel card rooms could only operate 12 hours a day. The new poker bills at one time had a provision to allow pari-mutuel cardrooms to be in operation up to 16 hours a day but that was stricken. I do not think the new bill will change the Hard Rock hours of operation.

The limit games at the Hard Rock follow the current rule of $2 max but as for max buy-in in tounaments - that has always been a gray area since tournaments were never really authorized by statute. The pari-mutuel card rooms have always run at $45 while the Hard Rock has had $1000 tournaments. Now that the bill actually sets a limit, currently interpreted at $800, I don't know if the Hard Rock will fall in line or continue to operate as they are now.

[NY60]

[ QUOTE ]
The hardrock was open 24 hours before for poker sngs, yes? Does this bill make it so that now it's only 12 hours?? Or was cash games only open some lesser amount of time?

Also are the 1050-1100 games now gone? That's what someone above said this bill indicates? $800 max?

What's going on, if someone can clear up how this affects hardrock MTT and STT I would appreciate it very much.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are excellent questions the answers to which, in all likelihood, can only be found at the top echelon of the Seminole Tribal Counsel and the State's Attorney's Office and Attorney General and/or Governor's Office.

Lets face it, the tribe has always taken the position that under the Federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, they could conduct any gaming that is allowed under State law.

Remember they used to run games for a quarter ($.25) when the law set the maximum pot level at ten dollars.

After the law was changed to max $2 bet they started to run no limit tourneys with buy ins up to $500 (and later $1050).

However limt games always followed State law on the max $2 bet. Even when the State regulations came out that pari-mutuals could only hold tourneys with a $45 buyin, an issue that was extensively litigated, the tribe didnot follow the State regulations on tournaments but continued to honor the State Statute on the max $2 bet for limit games.

Here is the "kicker" which leaves everyone scratching their heads. The Federal law, the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, has a specific exemption for poker which says that the tribes must follow State law regarding both "hours of operation" AND "betting limits".

So, the issue presented, and this has been written about in many of the poker periodicals, is whether the 24 hour operation and no limit tourneys with buy ins greater than $45 is illegal which it appears so after reviewing the federal amd state laws.

Now what could have been done about this? The only recourse would have been either the State filing suit to enjoin the games or worse, an actual raid of the casinos. I am not sure what are the legal ramifications of an actual raid given both the indian sovereignty issue (they are a seperate country) as well as the political fallout from such action. But it would appear that the tribe was concerned about some type of political pressure otherwise they would have never followed the max $2 bet to begin with.

It appears that perhaps an unwritten compromise was reached at the top law enforcment and executive levels.

Going forward it doesnt appear that anything will change.

I'm sorry that's the best I could ever find out after speaking with the top management at the Hard Rock or figure out after reviewing the laws in this area.

[VOX]

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[ QUOTE ]
The hardrock was open 24 hours before for poker sngs, yes? Does this bill make it so that now it's only 12 hours?? Or was cash games only open some lesser amount of time?

[/ QUOTE ]

These are excellent questions the answers to which, in all likelihood, can only be found at the top echelon of the Seminole Tribal Counsel and the State's Attorney's Office and Attorney General and/or Governor's Office.

Lets face it, the tribe has always taken the position that under the Federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, they could conduct any gaming that is allowed under State law.
...
Here is the "kicker" which leaves everyone scratching their heads. The Federal law, the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, has a specific exemption for poker which says that the tribes must follow State law regarding both "hours of operation" AND "betting limits".

So, the issue presented, and this has been written about in many of the poker periodicals, is whether the 24 hour operation... is illegal which it appears so after reviewing the federal amd state laws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alternatively, we could look at the text of the law.

"Any horserace, greyhound race, or jai alai permitholder licensed under this section may operate a cardroom at the pari-mutuel facility on any day for a cumulative amount of 12 hours if the permitholder meets the requirements under paragraph (5)(b)."

This section of the law doesn't apply to the Seminoles, as they do not run horses, dogs, or jai-alai players. As a result, the gaming should still run 24 hours.

If the law was written such that it said that "Poker may only be played from XAM to YPM", then the Seminoles might be stuck. That's not the case, however.

That would be my argument anyway. How long does Crist have before he can no longer veto and it goes into law without his signature?

[NY60]

[ QUOTE ]


Alternatively, we could look at the text of the law.

"Any horserace, greyhound race, or jai alai permitholder licensed under this section may operate a cardroom at the pari-mutuel facility on any day for a cumulative amount of 12 hours if the permitholder meets the requirements under paragraph (5)(b)."

This section of the law doesn't apply to the Seminoles, as they do not run horses, dogs, or jai-alai players. As a result, the gaming should still run 24 hours.

If the law was written such that it said that "Poker may only be played from XAM to YPM", then the Seminoles might be stuck. That's not the case, however.

That would be my argument anyway. How long does Crist have before he can no longer veto and it goes into law without his signature?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well...I guess you could look at it that way....But, (you knew there was going to be a but), since these are the ONLY laws dealing with cardroom poker and operating hours in a commercial establishment, I think a Judge would be hard pressed to accept this argument. If you follow this logic to its natural conclusion then you would also be able to argue that the max $2 bet limit doesn't apply to the Seminoles either because they do not run horses, dogs, or jai-alai players either!!

Lets be realistic, a Judge or the Secretary of the Interior or whoever, would ask "What are the existing Florida laws regulating commercial establishments who are allowed to offer poker?", and then he/she would, at least under Federal Law, apply those same standards to an Indian Tribe.

[TPaulk99]

Ok, so now I am confused. Does this law allow for a NL cash game or just raise the stakes for NL tournies?

[NY60]

Oh, sorry, I also forgot to mention that the Governor has seven days (if the legislature is still in session otherwise ten days if not in session) to sign the bill "ONCE THE BILL IS PRESENTED TO HIM". Now I'm a little unsure how one tracks when a bill is presented to the Governor once passed by both Houses.

The best I could find out from the House and Senate Websites is that once a bill passes in must be "Enrolled" which means that the Clerk of the Chamber where the bill originated must gather the Attestation from the fellow chamber as to the authenticity of the bill's written contents before it can be presented to the Governor.

I don't how long this whole process takes but I can only imagine that it shouldnt take more than a couple of days.