Play a Hand With the Masters #1 Flop

[Exitonly]

why is a flop bet mandatory? if what was said is true, then he's most likely setting a trap for you and is going to checkraise.

[locutus2002]

Hero bets T1600.

Hero is most concerned about SB who called T525 in the small blind. By betting hero squeezes SB who is hard pressed to play 88--. He was unlikely to call with a single T or a 9 in his hand so he most likely has two overs (AK,AQ,KQs) and cannot call without seeing CO's action.

CO could have any holding as he was getting great odds to call the PF raise; his range is wide but behind AJ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

[EverettKings]

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why is a flop bet mandatory? if what was said is true, then he's most likely setting a trap for you and is going to checkraise.

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Please read all of my post. Or ask a more specific question becasue I addressed this one.

Everett

[NoahSD]

There are a lot of hands in both villains' ranges that checkraise here. Similarly, there are a lot of turns that are pretty nice for us: any club, any ace, any 8, any Q, any K. This makes me lean towards a check.

I don't mind betting 1k though, as it's unlikely that either of our opponents has an overpair, and they're likely suspicious that we do. Checking here announces that we don't have TPTK or an overpair because checking this flop with one of those is pretty risky.

Still, I like the passive line with big stacks.

[Exitonly]

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why is a flop bet mandatory? if what was said is true, then he's most likely setting a trap for you and is going to checkraise.

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Please read all of my post. Or ask a more specific question becasue I addressed this one.

Everett


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You didn't though.

Betting here is NOT going to win the hand often.

And i'm not saying to invest all your chips when a J hits on the turn.. but it's really rare that you're ahead here i think and betting the flop is pissing away chips.


-- You think you're behind on the flop... so you invest more just to be sure? When you could improve your hand to the winning hand (or closer to it) for free.

Checking this flop is far from disastrous.

[NoahSD]

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And that right there is the difference between the pro's and us commonfolk.


They hit these flops.

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No... they get more respect.

[NoahSD]

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Lets say tighty CO has AQ or AK and limped cuz "its a drawing hand"

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AK and AQ are very unlikely to be in CO's hand. So unlikely that we should disconsider it (especially when they're so significant here). Don't make your plays based on specific cards of your opponents when you have no evidence to narrow the range that much. Definitely don't make these plays when you have evidence suggesting that your opponent would have played these hands in about the exact opposite way.

[mts]

pot sized bet or check

[NoahSD]

"Me preflop raiser. Me lead flop."

Honestly, this isn't poker. You need reasons to bet the flop because if you c-bet every flop 1) your opponents aren't putting you on AA every time and 2) your opponents will call your preflop raises more frequently with guaranteed implied odds.

Thus, don't c-bet in bad spots. Here, you're betting into two players on a flop of 9Tx, one of whom (MJ) showed considerable strength by cold calling a raise OOP when he didn't close the action. 9Tx is a great flop for two passively played hands, and we should be very concerned. The turn'll clarify this hand significantly.

For those of you advocating betting, please give a reason why this spot is at least in the top 2/3 of spots to c-bet. Realize that if you plan on betting 1k, you need to win this much more than 1/3 of the time for it to be profitable. (Remember that you're not drawing dead to any hand, so you're rather frequently pushing out a hand that you would've beaten, and therefore winning 1/3 of the time is insufficient. Sklansky pointed this out in a very nice example where the flop comes down JJJ and hero has 23.)

What range of hands do you put the TWO villains on such that they BOTH fold like 2/3 of the time, let alone the 3/4 that are probably necessary? Keep in mind that MJ knows that more than half the cards in the deck are scarecards for our range of hands, so he may call and lead the turn half the time with air.

[NoahSD]

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I think a case can be made for checking through but I think I want this pot now.

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I want all pots all the time. I don't bet into all pots all the time, though.