JJ 3bet and in position

[Isura]

Then 60% of pot is probably a fine river bet. Especially if there's little chance of us betting bluff c/r because it looks like we have only 1 pair.

[The Grumbler]

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II'm not sure what he calls you with on the river that you beat, but maybe AK and some smaller PPs.

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Yep, 88, 77, 66, 55...

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Those are all pretty bad calls. Does he think AJ checked flop to float turn and bluff river?

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Isura,

I'm not arguing they are good calls, but I see them made plenty.

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Agreed.

[epdaws]

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Then 60% of pot is probably a fine river bet. Especially if there's little chance of us betting bluff c/r because it looks like we have only 1 pair.

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Yeah, Villain can only have a timid QQ that beats us here.

[Stealthy]

I agree fully with Isura and Xorbie here. Messing about with flop checks in this re-raised pot when our hand is vulnerable to a lot of turn cards is not good here. I bet/fold this flop and check the turn as standard here.

Also despite what you might be told in small stakes from time to time "finding where you are at" is often correct, and this is one of those times.

[AKQJ10]

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Also despite what you might be told in small stakes from time to time "finding where you are at" is often correct, and this is one of those times.

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Exactly. Per NLHETAP, it's a cost/benefit analysis depending on the price you're paying for the information and the reliability of the information. A good player should probably corrupt the information by check/raising on occasion with 88 here if she knows how you play JJ, but that's tough to do when your opponent is representing an overpair that could be AA for all you know.

So it's the age-old question of how many steps ahead of you your opponent is (or v/v). I don't play at these stakes enough to be well-informed, but it seems to me that:

Protection + moderately reliable info + value of taking down the pot against a worse hand (redundant)

>

value of deception to induce bluffs + pot control (?) + free card against thwarted check/raise

But each of those terms is subject to change.

[BukNaked36]

TWP just posted this in his "well" thread in micro:

*******************************************
Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $420.10
UTG+1: $466.50
CO: $439.70
TWP: $485.70
SB: $435
BB: $488.10

Pre-flop: (6 players) TWP is Button with Q A
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $16, CO folds, TWP raises to $66, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 3 5 K ($138, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, TWP bets $99, UTG+1 folds.

If he guesses wrong here, he loses his stack. He has to guess, completely blind, on a board where I can easily have AA, AK, KK, and he has to guess for his whole stack. I, on the other hand, only have to put in 25%-30% of my stack in order to put pressure on his WHOLE stack. That's because I have position. And he KNOWS (or should know) that this will happen on the flop, which puts pressure on him to fold PREFLOP. But how many of you guys are re-raising this hand preflop?

Look how bad it is if I flat call. He then CBs the flop and now I have no idea if he has AA or AK or whatever. And I can float the flop, but then he might second barrel bluff me on the turn. Or he might c/r bluff me on the turn if I take a stab at the pot. By re-raising preflop, I cut down all implied odds and all room for him to bluff. Immediately on the flop, he has to either pot commit himself or fold. And my range looks very strong now, as opposed to when I just call preflop which makes my hand look weak.

Things like this really add to your winrate when you can pick the right spots.
************************************************

Isn't the point of 3betting to rep a big pair? If you're repping big pair, aren't you betting the flop? And as TWP explains above, you want to pressure villian for his stack on the flop.

[yad]

Bukem,
the difference between TWP's hand and this one is that TWP's hand has no showdown value.

[ajmargarine]

idk. On the flop, it just felt like a situation to me that if I could get to showdown, or to the river at least, for one bet that would be a good thing. My instinct said that if there were two streets of betting before showdown, I would be in more trouble against his range than not. Results: I checked behind river and he had 55 and MHIG.

In hindsight, I should be able to read the betting patterns here and know I am good most of the time and bet 1/2 pot or so for value on the river. I doubt he calls, but still. I appreciate the good discussion in the thread, thanks alot.

[tufat23]

read like the first 10 replies.

imo, bet the river for balance