worlds greatest athelete announces retirement

[chezlaw]

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A story I read was that Lara got the cold shoulder from Hayden when he called Hayden to congratulate him on the 380. Lara is said to have told one of his teammates right then that Hayden would not have the record for long.

Side quiz:

Which current players have test triples under their belt?

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Hayden and Lara as mentioned. Inzamam, Jayasuriya if he is still playing and Gayle. Can't think of any others.

chez

[skp]

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Hayden and Lara as mentioned. Inzamam, Jayasuriya if he is still playing and Gayle. Can't think of any others.

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Jayasuriya is indeed still playing. I had forgotten that he had a triple...some quizmaster I am...lol

You are missing at least 2 others from your list. One is an Indian who got 309 against Pakistan in 2004 or 2005. The other is a Sri Lankan who got 374 this year against South Africa. In the same innings, Sangakarra got 287 if you can believe it.

[Metamorphatory]

Murali has gotten approx 140 of his wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe (while Warne has 17 against the same). Some of you may want to rethink the whole "murali is better" argument.

* I hate Warne but the comaprison is silly.

[Isura]

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Murali has gotten approx 140 of his wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe (while Warne has 17 against the same). Some of you may want to rethink the whole "murali is better" argument.

* I hate Warne but the comaprison is silly.

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Yes. But he also plays on a much weaker team and has almost no other bowling support. Also SL's batting lineup can't rake up runs like Australia's.

[Isura]

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[ QUOTE ]
Murali has gotten approx 140 of his wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe (while Warne has 17 against the same). Some of you may want to rethink the whole "murali is better" argument.

* I hate Warne but the comaprison is silly.

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Murali plays on a much weaker team and has almost no other bowling support. Also SL's batting lineup can't rake up runs like Australia's. Strategy changes when you're defending 400 runs rather than 200 in every test match. It's also easier to "bat around" murali in tests, but the Aussies keep relentless pressure from Mcgrath/Lee and others from the other end.

[skp]

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Murali plays on a much weaker team and has almost no other bowling support.

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Just playing Devil's advocate here but....if Murali had bowling support, he may have taken *less* wickets because there would be fewer wickets for him to take. Put another way, if McGrath wasn't around to take 500 plus wickets, Warne may have had more wickets available to him for the taking. (also see note below)

But having said that, I agree with this:

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It's also easier to "bat around" murali in tests, but the Aussies keep relentless pressure from Mcgrath/Lee and others from the other end.

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And this:

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Also SL's batting lineup can't rake up runs like Australia's. Strategy changes when you're defending 400 runs rather than 200 in every test match.

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So, at the end of the day, I do think that they are nearly equal as bowlers. But as a cricketer, Warne is better because of his catching in the slips and his batting.

Warney: 4 innings left to get your first test hundred, mate!

Note: While Anil Kumble definitely is not Murali or Warne, he ain't far behind these guys either in ability. Keep in mind that with Harbhajan Singh - another good spinner - in the Indian line-up, Kumble has had many wickets that would have been his go to H. Singh instead.

[Metamorphatory]

Whilst we are playing devils advocate try these:

Do you think it is less or more skillful to bowl Leg Spin than other types of Spin?

Does this affect the comparison?

Why does almost every commentator, cricketer and columnist rate Warne better than Murali?

Why was Warne named by Wisden as one of the 5 greatest cricketers of all time?

Do you think that the doosera is a legal delivery?

Has the stigma of being called a chucker affected Murali's standing?

Who do you pick first in your team?

[Metamorphatory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Murali has gotten approx 140 of his wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe (while Warne has 17 against the same). Some of you may want to rethink the whole "murali is better" argument.

* I hate Warne but the comaprison is silly.

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]

Murali plays on a much weaker team and has almost no other bowling support. Also SL's batting lineup can't rake up runs like Australia's. Strategy changes when you're defending 400 runs rather than 200 in every test match. It's also easier to "bat around" murali in tests, but the Aussies keep relentless pressure from Mcgrath/Lee and others from the other end.

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Have you actually had a close look at Sri Lanka's test record for the last 6-7 years? You may be in for a surprise.

Since 1998:

Aus: 4L 1W 3D
Bang: 0L 7W OD
Eng: 5L 4W 4D
Ind: 3L 2W 5D
NZ 3L 3W 3D
Pak: 6L 4W 2D
S.A.: 7L 4W 3D
W.I.: 1L 5W 1D
Zim: 0L 8W 2D

Totals: 29 Losses, 38 Wins, 23 Draws


I think he has bowled at plenty of totals and his team has racked up plenty of runs whilst he has played. They have also been 1 Day World Champions in his time.

Malinga (who just cleaned up NZ) has 71 at an average of 31, Jayasuriya has 96 at 34, Fernando has 69 at 31 and Vass also has 313 wickets at 29. Not exactly McGrath I agree, but not quite bowling one out either.

[skp]

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Murali has gotten approx 140 of his wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe (while Warne has 17 against the same). Some of you may want to rethink the whole "murali is better" argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

Warne:

143 tests/699 wickets/25.49 average

194 ODIs/293 wickets/4.25 economy rate

Murali:

110 Tests/674 wickets/21.73 Average

282 ODIs/425 wickets/3.84 economy rate

In the test arena, Murali has played 33 fewer tests than Warne. Murali gets about 6 wickets per test. So, in 33 tests, you can expect him to add another 200 wickets. That would then take him to 874 wickets compared to Shane's 699. So, even if you filter off Bnagladesh and Zimbabwe, the wickets would likely go in Murali's favor (also at a better average).

The wicket taking in ODIs seem about equal but again, Murali has a better economy rate.

Whe you factor in all of the other intangibles mentioned by you and Isura in this thread, these guys appear to be pretty well on par with each other IMO.

[chezlaw]

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Hayden and Lara as mentioned. Inzamam, Jayasuriya if he is still playing and Gayle. Can't think of any others.

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Jayasuriya is indeed still playing. I had forgotten that he had a triple...some quizmaster I am...lol

You are missing at least 2 others from your list. One is an Indian who got 309 against Pakistan in 2004 or 2005. The other is a Sri Lankan who got 374 this year against South Africa. In the same innings, Sangakarra got 287 if you can believe it.

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Guessed the Sri-lankan correctly, guessed the Indian incorrectly despite being sure it wasn't Tendulkar.

chez