AL Rookie of the Year?

[crockpot]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, no. The wins stat I'm using takes into account the exact situation AND batters faced. So that means Papelbon has been better than the replacement level pitcher by 5.6 wins, and Liriano has been better by 4.5 wins. That's pretty clear cut who's been more valuble this year.

With regards to the use of pitchers, I can agree that Liriano should be expected to produce better numbers if he were used as a reliever and Papelbon would produce worse if he were a starter. I'm not arguing the talent, because on that, I believe Liriano to be light years better than Papelbon. They don't hand out hardware based on talent, they hand it out based on production. Papelbon's 0.90 ERA in 58 innings has been more valuble to his team than Liriano's 2.19 in 119.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is very well said, and it should basically end this particular debate. of course papelbon will not post a 0.90 ERA forever, and liriano has the brighter future; those things do not matter in a ROY discussion. did anyone really think angel berroa had better potential than mark teixeira in 2003?

[Sooga]

Weaver had another brilliant start tonight. Sure, he was pitching against Seattle, which isn't exactly murderer's row, but where is he right now in the AL ROY race:

Liriano: on the shelf, 12-3, 2.19 ERA, 142K overall

Verlander: 1-2, 6.75 ERA in august, 14-5, 3.14 ERA overall

Papelbon: 3 for 5 in saves in august, 32/37 saves, .89 ERA overall

and now Weaver: 2-0, 2.92 ERA in august, 9-0, 1.95 ERA overall.

Just a few weeks ago I'd have said Weaver was #4 in the AL ROY race... but now, with Liriano on the shelf, and Papelbon and Verlander not quite as dominant as before? I have no idea anymore.

What will have to happen for Weaver to have a serious shot at ROY?

[crockpot]

[ QUOTE ]
What will have to happen for Weaver to have a serious shot at ROY?

[/ QUOTE ]

the angels winning the division would be a great start, because then weaver will almost certainly get "they don't make the playoffs without him" votes. the red sox probably won't get there, and the tigers need to stumble in order for their margin of victory to be thin enough to call verlander the difference-maker.

[Propertarian]

[ QUOTE ]
They don't hand out hardware based on talent, they hand it out based on production. Papelbon's 0.90 ERA in 58 innings has been more valuble to his team than Liriano's 2.19 in 119.

[/ QUOTE ] This may be true...Pap's performance may in fact be more valuable

But...I still think your measure takes into account things a pitcher has no control over...which shouldn't be taken into account

It would be like giving one soldier an 80 year old rusty rifle, and another a brand new machine gun, and blaming the first guy for his "lack of performance".

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
and the tigers need to stumble in order for their margin of victory to be thin enough to call verlander the difference-maker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Verlander is the reason the tigers are in first place, no doubt about it. He's been the teams MVP, and the intangible that has gotten them over the top. Starting pitching wins games and division titles.

Verlander will win the ROY

[THAY3R]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and the tigers need to stumble in order for their margin of victory to be thin enough to call verlander the difference-maker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Verlander is the reason the tigers are in first place, no doubt about it. He's been the teams MVP, and the intangible that has gotten them over the top. Starting pitching wins games and division titles.

Verlander will win the ROY

[/ QUOTE ]


teehee

[shemp]

The clear choice:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7467

<font color="white"> Pre-emptive "O RLY?" to whoever points out lack of qualification</font>